Welcome to the premiere episode of the COMM program series! In this episode, Cadie sits down with Communication major Kozhiin Siteki to dive into all things COMM. Tune in as Kozhiin shares firsthand insights, reveals what the major is really like, and reflects on his own journey through the program.
Sonal: Welcome to CHSS Connection, a podcast where we interview different students and faculty about all things CHSS, from academics to careers to everything in between. If you're wondering who would make a podcast about the game of chess, that's actually not the CHSSwe're talking about. We're referring to the College of Humanities and Social Sciences here at Mason. This is a student success podcast for CHSS students by CHSS students. And even if you aren't, we're happy to have you here. I'm one of your hosts Sonal Prakash. Zoe: And I'm your other host, Zoe Nix. This episode is once again hosted by Cadie Junker. So we’ll let her take it away. Cadie: In this episode, we have finally gotten to my major: communications. So be prepared for me to be as annoying as possible now. But enough about me. Let's talk about our guest. Today we're joined by a senior in the communications program with a concentration in Interpersonal Organizational Communications, which is now communication studies. He's also got a film minor. Please welcome to the show, Kozhiin Siteki. Kozhiin: Hello. Cadie: Hello, Kozhiin. How are you doing? Kozhiin: Good. Cadie: Good. Good. I'm glad you're here. Kozhiin: Thanks. Cadie: It's finals week. Kozhiin: It is, yeah, it's finals week. And this is the first podcast I have been on ever so. Cadie: Congratulations. Well, we're so glad to have you here. Kozhiin: Thanks. Cadie: We are here today to talk about communications. Now, we were in the same class for the past year. Very rare to have the same class with the same person all year round. But we did that. So I'm going to be asking you a bunch of questions today about the communications program. It's going to be split into two acts. The first act's going to be more general questions. The second act is going to be more deeper reflection. Now to get into it, my very first question for you. Please tell us a little bit about the communications program. Kozhiin: I don't have anything prepared for this, so I am going to have to just it's a very open ended question, but I think the first thing that comes to mind for me, and this is what I tell people when, when people ask me what my major is like when I first meet people and they're like, why communication? It's really the people in the community is probably my favorite part. Like, the people are very cool and I have a very specific kind of view of Mason. And, I mean, I'm sure that's the case for everybody because everybody has a major that they're in. But, I think my experience at Mason, is very much kind of based around the people in the communication program. And, I just find that I've met a lot of really cool people and, the biggest skills I've kind of picked up on and what kind of drew me to it initially is that it it teaches you a lot about skills, or at least, in my concentration, it kind of feels like this is the case for all concentrations to some extent as well. I think it kind of teaches you skills that apply to life in general and things that I've benefited from, not just in a professional environment, but in a personal environment. And, I mean, I know a lot of people go to college specifically for professional development, but I've really benefited from the personal development part as well. And that's kind of one of my goals. And, things I want to get out of college. And I feel like that's the thing that really stands out to me in the communication department. And you can kind of transfer those skills over as well into the professional space. So it's kind of a win win in that sense. Yeah. Cadie: Yeah. Well, I mean, and this is a broad stroke of the program, but it's it's how to talk to people and it's how to, in a way formulate relationships, whether that is a professional relationship in something like PR in journalism, or if that's more like a closer relationship, like in your concentration. It's also one thing that kind of surprised me about the the comms major here is how much we deal with media. I mean, we have a media concentration. And of course, you know, communications journalism like that makes sense. But also my concentration. I'm constantly talking about media. Always, always. So yeah, that's just another thing I think is really interesting. Kozhiin: I think, yeah, that's really interesting as well. And I think it overlaps interest wise as well. This was something I was hoping we would be able to talk about. Oh, yeah, I really this is really one of my favorite topics. I feel like communication and media are before, I went into communication, like, as a major because I was a film major before and finished my minor, and then I swapped, I decided to go into communications after after my first semester at Mason. Because a class at Nova that I really enjoyed, and I think from just like a conceptual standpoint, like they overlap a lot and you wouldn't really think about it until you're in the major. And, it's really it's it's one of my favorite parts because I love media, but I didn't love film as much from a, like, like being in the film. Cadie: Yes. Yeah. I had a very, a very similar experience. I never majored in film, but I was applying to film schools and I was the only like big film school that I didn't apply to was Tisch, because I was like, I'd already done all of the process for UCLA and USC, and I was like, I cannot handle another film application. And then I didn't get in. And that's okay, because those programs have like 3% acceptance rate. So it's it's okay. I wasn't in their first batch of rejections because I didn't get my rejection letter until May. So I was like, at least there's that silver lining. But, you know, I, I had a point with, oh, yes, I had an internship my senior year. And I've talked about this before where, it was a lot of really good onset experience. And then I realized I kind of don't like being on set that much. It's a lot of a hurry up to wait. Yeah. But you've already kind of alluded to this or talked about it a little bit, but why did you decide to major in communications, especially over film? Kozhiin: I, I've not fully worked that out, I guess. I think I don't know if this is a smart decision, but it's partly just because I enjoy it more like I actually just like being a communication major more, just experience wise. The I mean, I guess I've, I also it's not that I don't enjoy being on set, but I know what you mean. Like, it's not, if you're not passionate about it, it's not, it's kind of stressful. I don't know how it was. Was it stressful? Cadie: Yeah. Kozhiin: Yeah, because I find it stressful as well. And, I think that the less the kind of practical, in-person stuff has grown on me a little bit. I by that, I mean, like, hands on, kind of, you know, like stuff, like being on set, right? Cadie: Being a grip, being a camera operator, things like scripting. That was my job. A lot like scripting. Kozhiin: Yeah, right. That kind of stuff. It's grown on me, but I definitely didn't like it when I was, in film. And now, honestly, I think I could go back to it and enjoy it a lot more now, but I think so, it's not I don't think it's that I actually don't like it. I think I do like it, I just don't think it was the right time for it then. And I think I had to spend some time thinking about some more, like, conceptual stuff and like sitting at my computer and thinking, and like, reading stuff. And that's kind of what going into communication brought me. So I guess that's partly what it is. It's like focusing a little bit less on doing and more on learning. Yeah. Taking in information, about how people work and how communication works and how relationships work and, yeah, like learning that kind of stuff before. And I don't even know if I want to go into media or film at all, but if I do, I feel like I now have more of a, I can I can do things in the world after having thought more. Yeah, if that makes sense. I don't know if that makes sense. Cadie: No, I think it does. And I mean, I think communication sets us up uniquely because we're able to understand people more and film sets, especially our high stress, high tension environments. Yeah. And if you do not know how to communicate to people and communicate effectively, nothing's going to get done, right? Kozhiin: Right. Both in terms of working in that space and also translating that into creative stuff, like if you're working on a movie, you have to be able to have those skills and also understand how those interpersonal things work and how high stress environments work. To be able to put those into whatever you're making. Cadie: Yeah. I'm really curious, why did you two why did you decide to concentrate in what is now communication studies? What kind of drew you to that concentration over some of the more, I guess, flashy ones like journalism, PR, media studies? Kozhiin: I there was no question for me at all. That's the what they changed. Well, what was IOC. Right, right. I looked at them and like there was no what I was trying to decide. There was no question. Like, I looked at the list and I was like, that was the one that I wanted because I just like, I've, I've always liked the topic in general, like in my personal life, I just find interpersonal dynamics to be really interesting. And I think it's also very helpful to be good at those things, like like I mentioned before, like professionally and personally, like if you can learn, I think one of the things that stood out to me, when I chose to switch to communication was, while I was taking my first communication class at Nova, the professor mentioned how people, by default, kind of think they're good at communication. And I kind of thought that too, that I was good at communication. After finishing that class, I realized I wasn't at all. And I could be much, much better at it. And I don't remember exactly where I was going with this, but that just prompted me to do more. Sorry. Cadie: It taught you something new. Yeah. Which might be an experience you weren't getting as much in those film classes you were taking. Kozhiin: Yes. Yeah, yeah, 100%. Yeah. Cadie: I want to shift gears just a little bit and talk specifically about classes that you've taken for communications school. What are the core classes every single comm major has to take? I feel really silly asking you these questions because I know the answers, because I also had to take them. But like for the sake of the podcast, because we ask everybody these questions, what are the core classes? Kozhiin: I feel really silly because I have taken them and I don't know, off the top of my head because I, I have a really bad memory with that kind of stuff. Like, I know them all individually. Like, I'll, I'll remember the classes, but I don't know. I don't always remember, like, what's a core class and what was an elective. I just kind of go, semester by semester and I don't remember the details. What what what are they actually, what are they? Cadie: So Comm 200 was the one that we all started out with. And that was our theories of communications. I took that with Dr. Wright. Love. Doctor. Yeah. Dr. Cathy Wright, not Dr. Kevin Wright, although I love both Dr. Wrights. Both are great. And then comm 300 was the class that I took this last semester. Shout out to Dr. GP and that was our writing. And that was at least my writing intensive was writing and rhetorical criticism or rhetorical analysis, something like, yeah, the rhetoric class, that class. I don't know if you felt like this, but that class is really funny for me because it felt a lot like a class that I would take in high school. And like an English major class, not so much a communications class. Kozhiin: Who did you have it with? Cadie: Doctor Lisa Green. Kozhiin: I did too. Cadie: She is excellent. She is wonderful. I love her, but I was kind of laughing to myself because I'm like, I feel like I'm in AP lang again. Kozhiin: I homeschooled through high school, so I don’t know what that's like. Cadie: Okay. It's very similar. Kozhiin: Okay, that's good to know, because that class was definitely the most one of the most distinctive classes for me. I learned a lot. And it was also very like personal, and kind of casual between, like, everyone in the class. Yeah. But because of that, I feel like I actually learned more. And also like I have, like, very fond memories of that class, like it was that semester was very strict. Well, I most it's pretty stressful for me, but that's semester was one of the more stressful ones, and it helped that I was able to kind of make social connections in class. And at the end of that class, I don't know if your experience was as funny and kind of crazy with that class. Like in a good way. Cadie: No, it was it was very similar. It was a 9 a.m. and I miss it. Do you know how hard it is to get a college student to miss their 9 a.m.? Yeah, it's near impossible. But she did it. Kozhiin: At the end of my, of the last class, I, one of the students brought, like, a portable, like, frying pan thing and made pancakes. In class. Cadie: Oh, my gosh. Kozhiin: And everyone had pancakes. And it was awesome. Cadie: I love that we got donuts. Shout out to Nathan. You'll hear from him later in this season, actually. And then I think the last core is that intercultural communications. Yeah. Kozhiin: Yeah. Right. Cadie: Did you take that online? Kozhiin: No. Cadie: Okay. You took that in person. How was that? Kozhiin: That was great. That was with Professor Smiler. And that was my first or second. No, my first semester here was in film. And then that was either my that was, I think, my second semester here. Yeah. That class. And that was great. I was definitely a lot more nervous because I was new here and younger, but I it kind of was kind of a little bit of an introduction for me to the program. Did you take that one online? Cadie: Yes. I that was the class that I took this semester. And I took it online and I actually like learned a lot and retained a lot, which is sometimes kind of rare for an online class because, yeah, a lot of times they're especially asynchronous, which it was where it's kind of like you do the work because you get the grade, but you don't actually retain any of the information. I really liked it. This is very rare for me to say. I really liked the textbook. The textbook of that class was really interesting to me. Kozhiin: What was it again? Cadie: It was just called like foundations understanding intercultural Communications, third edition. I have it pulled up right now because I'm studying for finals, but yeah. Took that one this semester. Yeah. This semester. Yeah. I'm kind of surprised because that's a 300 level course. You took that your second semester here? Kozhiin: Yeah. Intercultural, right? Yes. Yeah, I never that I didn't think about that. Yeah. Yeah. It was definitely one of the more difficult ones in a in a good way. Right. But I that seems like a tough class to take. Cadie: Especially in your second semester. Kozhiin: Yeah. Well, I guess I was going to say it seems like a difficult one to take asynchronous. Is the textbook just interesting enough to kind of, like, just keep keep reading? Cadie: Honestly? Yeah. It was, it was a lot of, like, textbook discussion boards, very lengthy discussion boards, actually. But I enjoyed it. I thought that it was interesting enough. And then of course, the final core class that we took was the 490, 491 experience. Please share with the listeners a little bit about what what that was like. Kozhiin: It was I mean, I loved it like it was great. I think it was probably one of the most, like, engaging academic things I've done, like 100%, it's really interesting to take a class that spans, like, two semesters, basically. Well, it's like, I guess two classes, but it's. Yeah, one project that spans two semesters. It's really cool meeting, like, you get to know people more, especially because it's like, usually I feel like I don't get to know people that well in class, like, at all. Even though there are often people that I think like, man, that person seems really cool. Like, I want to get to know that person. And sometimes I do, but whenever I have, it's been through like coincidental other things, like I've made acquaintances in in classes before, but they're not. Classes aren't usually like great ways to get to know people, right? But because this class is so small and because it spans, kind of, you know, longer, longer length of time, it was a great social experience. And it was a great academic experience. Cadie: 490, 491, for those of you who don't know, is the honors program within the major communication. So you spend an entire year working on a research project. Most of us did surveys. Kozhiin and I did, experimental survey design. So we decided to make things harder on ourselves. But it was it was a good time. The academic rigor of the course makes up for or the the experience of the course and the value that I got out of the course, especially when it came to carrying out a research project more than made up for the increased academic rigor of the honors sequence versus just taking regular Comm 400. Kozhiin: Yeah, I 100% feel the same way. I think it's almost like I find it. I find that like classes like that. It's not that they're easier, but classes where it's, there's more of, like focus, like they're more sort of specific, like the more specific the topic gets, and the more like, often, like, higher level classes, like, I find them to be technically harder and emotionally easier. Because it's just it's interesting and it that out scales the technical. Well, like the more technically complex it is, oftentimes the more interesting it is. So it kind of is on how that makes it more kind of easy to engage with. Are you happy you did experiment? Because I'm really happy. Cadie: Yeah, actually, because I, I was able to present at the undergrad research symposium and like that was a lot of fun. And I also just think because I'm going to grad school. I also just think it kind of set me up for success in that regard to where, like, I now have this portfolio of like, oh, you need me to write a literature review. I got it right. Like, you need me to write a method section, I got it. You need me to draft up a results in discussion. Great. I got it like so. I'm glad that I have this basis to kind of, like, build on my learning. You're asking me all the questions. I'm the interviewer here. I should be asking you this. Kozhiin: I mean, is that okay? I don't want to like. Cadie: Yes, yes. It's fine. Kozhiin: I like I, I feel the same way. And it's great to be able to say that. Like, it's great to be able to say that you can do those things. Like, it just feels really accomplishing. I also found, I found that it's I always thought research was something important, but I didn't realize how fun it was. Like, yeah, I expected to go into the class being, you know, having like, there's some classes where I, I take them and I'm like, okay, this is a subject I love, and I'm going to enjoy it and have fun. And then there are some where I think this is important, and I'm going to learn important things. And it was the latter for this class at first. And then it I realized like I had a lot of trouble getting responses. Cadie: Yeah. Kozhiin: That was like a whole.. Cadie: But this sort of it wasn't your fault, literally wasn't. I would I would go and I would go in a class every day for, for listeners. And, you know, we would all give updates on our, on our projects. And all of us got IRB approval relatively quickly. Even me and they were asking you to do stuff that they didn't ask me to do when we actually had very similar survey designs of like, look at this image, then ask questions based off of the image. And they were just asking you to do like a lot more revisions. Then I got asked to do. And so that that took a while. Yeah. In defense of your paper and in defense of your survey. Kozhiin: I appreciate it. It was I mean, I understand it's something important, like it is important to be thorough and rigorous with something like the IRB, but also it is frustrating to be in my position too, because the semester is not infinite. Right? And the closer it gets to the deadline, the more you know. I was like, what am I going to do? I have to figure this out. And it did cause major problems for, for me logistically, but it, I also understand, you know, why it's important. And I could have done a better job logistically myself, too. Like, I could have definitely taken some some more days off of work or something. Or just schedule my time better and, gotten, you know, the revisions done quicker, or figured out how to use mturk more, which is honestly, that was a little bit more frustrating to me. The IRB was, figuring out how to get.. Should I explain what mturk is? Cadie: Yeah, yeah. Kozhiin: So I didn't know about this until this semester, but Amazon has a service that you can use to recruit participants, for, surveys that, get the participants get paid, like, a certain amount per, like, you know, a relatively small amount per survey. So they can just kind of keep taking surveys and make money. But as a I think they call it a requester. You can create surveys and pay the participants. And then also you pay like a fee to Amazon themselves. And it's a great service in theory and in practice. But it's hard to get it in practice. It took me like all semester to figure it out. So in some sense, I really did try to like, bite off more than I could chew early on. But you know, at the end of the day, I did learn from those things. So in some sense that, you know, there's there's benefit to that. Cadie: And, you know, you are able to see the very common reality of research that things don't always go according to plan. And we have these timelines in mind, and sometimes we're not able to adhere to these timelines. But you told me before we started recording, you got mturk figured out. Kozhiin: I did last second, yeah. Which is, not ideal, but sort of weirdly fitting with the way the semester went, like, it's it's it's oddly satisfying. I mean, I guess not oddly satisfying. It is satisfying, but it's kind of nerve wracking that it was so short notice. Cadie: Right. And so down to the wire. Kozhiin: Yeah. Cadie: What are some of the classes that you've taken for your concentration specifically looking at those IAC right. More base elective classes. Kozhiin: I am terrible with knowing what is like connected to what again, like I kind of they're I look at the you know so just it's I have to take in that. Cadie: I guess better question, what are some communication classes that you've taken that you've really enjoyed? Kozhiin: One that like the first one that kind of pops to mind for me is, I don't know if they changed the name of this when they changed like this. I think they changed the name of this class. Yeah, because of the whole, switch up that. Cadie: With the names, they've completely redone the communications program here at Mason within the last couple of semesters. So what was once political calm is now advocacy. What was once IAC is now communication studies. I believe like journalism. I know my concentration PR was relatively the same. I don't know about media studies. But they did like, kind of do a revamp. So classes might not be called the same thing and their course number might be different, but it still doesn't change the experience that you had. Kozhiin: Yeah. Yeah, not at all. I, I don't know what it's called now, but relational communication, I think it was called then. I had that with professor Nicotera. A couple semesters, quite a while ago now. Yeah. That was really, really insightful for me. That actually, that class helped me, kind of work out, like, actual interpersonal issues, like I had personally. Yeah, it it was, you know, and sometimes, like, I don't know, you know, it's hard to, to, you know, interpret whether these things are like, random or not, but sometimes things will like, line up very well. Timing wise. And that was the case for me with that class. So it kind of stood out to me partly for that reason. It was like during a very like interpersonally complicated time. And so it was like I was kind of being offered up all of these really valuable skills at a very critical time where I kind of needed to use them. And I was like, well, I'm going to really make use of this. And that's kind of one of those classes. It really leans into that, like personal, like what I was talking about earlier, where you can kind of gain value not just professionally but personally. From these concepts, for example, like it's very difficult to actually know how to listen to people. It's kind of difficult for me to know how to phrase this, but, being able to listen instead of just hearing, yeah, is difficult. And also there is something that, in that class that Professor Nicotera pointed out that that really changed the way that I look at interpersonal interactions was if you I hope it's okay that I'm quoting her with this. Okay. Cool. And also, I, you know, I might not be saying this word for word, but I, you know, the concept stuck with me. So hopefully I get it right, at least somewhat. But I think what she said was along the lines of, if you if someone pushes your buttons, move your buttons, like you can actually, there's something to be said for standing up for yourself. I think that's important often. But also oftentimes people aren't trying to manipulate or or agitate you. Like sometimes they absolutely are. And it can be hard to pinpoint when they aren't. And I think it's important to be able to pinpoint when they aren't. But sometimes I would say most of the time they're not. Most of the time, especially the people that we're close to are actually trying to help us, like, because they care about us, like the people that care about us are the ones that most easily bother us. Because if you think about it like you can get mad at someone while driving, but you don't think about that six months later, you do think about it six months later when someone you care about does something that bothers you because you care about them. And so oftentimes people push our buttons because there's something that they're doing consistently that is in attempt to help us. And when you understand that they're trying to help you and not trying to manipulate or agitate you or or anger you, you can just kind of move that button like, and so, like they can't push the button anymore because you internally respond differently to the stimuli of like them talking to you in some way that bothers you. Like an example of this was I mentioned in class. I was like, my mom asked me if I had finished my paper yet, and I had an internal reaction at the time. This was like during that semester. My internal reaction was, well, great. Now I really don't want to finish the paper because you just asked me because you being my mom, I was like, you just. I didn't say that's been my head. I was like, you just asked me to do something. That's my responsibility. And I kind of had a little bit of like, well, it's none of your business reaction internally. And I brought that up in class and in my head I was like, well, my mom shouldn't be so nosy. And like, the thing is, when she's trying to help, like, like there's no ill intent there. And you can move that, or I was able to move that button and just understand in future moments that like whether it's her or anyone else, like when they're when when someone is doing something annoying, usually they're not actually trying to be annoying. And you can point out that something bothers you, but sometimes you don't even have to and sometimes like it kind of emotionally diffuses it for you internally when you realize that they're they're not trying to be a jerk. And this is also like is really helpful as a server, like because I'm a server and, you know, a lot of people work in customer service and, can be very, very emotionally difficult to handle. Yes. Customers, especially ones that are drunk. Sometimes you have to stand up for yourself, but it is really, really helpful a lot of the time to just realize, like where the other person is coming from and that you can just emotionally diffuse it internally. And that's not the same thing as being like a doormat. And it's a very like weird line to walk because it's you really. I personally think it's really important not to be a doormat and to really stand up for yourself, but when you need to, but also to be able to emotionally diffuse internally. And that's not the same thing as a pressing your emotions, right? I yeah, I know this is kind of a long rant, but, just being able to, like, notice how you internally respond to people pushing your buttons and when, when necessary, moving those buttons. That was. Sorry. That was kind of a long, long rant. Cadie: No, no, but I think that's great for sure. Yeah. To close out act one, my final question for you for this segment is what has been your favorite memory involving your major? Kozhiin: I don't know if I can come up with a single favorite, because I might remember something else later and be like, oh, well, this is actually my favorite or one of my favorites, but I'll try to come up with something that really stuck with me that that I can that comes to mind initially. The odd thing is I don't go to like that. Many events like I often like will stick to going to class. Wait, actually what- There are some events that I've gone to. You know, those like cocoa and coffee. Cadie: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like cocoa and cookies or something. Kozhiin: Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. This is something that stands out to me a little bit. I don't know if it's my favorite, favorite, but I remember going and, I was like, I was very tired and I wasn't sure if I wanted to go because I just had a long day and I ended up going and it ended up being a great time. I actually ran into someone I know, like, completely separate outside of Mason there, which was cool. And I just got to chat with classmates and professors and stuff, and it's kind of a mundane memory, but like in a good way. Like it was it was very it was cool to kind of just relax and chat and talk to people. It kind of felt like it was actually like, felt like being part of a community. So maybe I should join events a little bit. Especially before I graduate. Cadie: Yeah. No. Well, I think the mundane ness, if that's the right term of the situation, is what made it so special, because it can be very validating. I remember going to like the welcome back pizza party with a friend of mine earlier in this year. And, you know, I was talking to him. I was like, I don't really know anybody else in communications because I at that point I'd early I had only taken one comms course here in, in Mason. The rest of them had been over in Spain. And so I was like, I don't really know anybody in the program. I end up running into one of my old professors who had brought one of her classes, and her classes were filled with classmates that I knew, from my journalism, from the one class that I had taken here at Mason in person. And I was talking to them, catching up. Oh, hi, how are you? And I was shocked that they remembered me because it had been a semester at this point, and it had been an entire summer. And I remember walking out my friend Megan comment like, I thought you said you didn't know any, like, well, yeah, I didn't think I did. So, like, I don't know, having some of those more mundane events, it can be very validating to feel like, yes, I am, I'm here. This is my community too. I made the right decision. Kozhiin: Are you in touch with those people? Cadie: Sort of. We'll say hi if I see them in the hallways, but I didn't get any of their contact information after class either. So, like, that's part of the reason why it was so surprising to me because they were classroom friends to know that, like, they had remembered me and asked me like, oh, you know, where like, where were you last semester? We missed seeing you in class. We missed we missed your writing. And I was like, oh, I was studying abroad, but I'm back, I'm back. But I do still catch up with Professor Maloney. Relatively frequently. Okay. She is, a great professor for the journalism people out there. Kozhiin: Yeah. Cool. Cadie: Well, I think that's a great way to close out act one. We are going to transition into the bulletin board now. We will see you all in act two. Zoe: And now it's time for the bulletin board. The CHSS ambassadors will be at kiosk A in the Johnson Center from 3 to 5 p.m. on November 3rd. Ask any questions you might have or explore major related opportunities. Sonal: The 2026 Communication Career Forum will be on Tuesday, October 27th. Make sure to pre-register for the opportunity to join small group mentoring sessions with a variety of professionals in your field, including public affairs specialist media producers, journalists, health communicators, marketers and more. Zoe: Up next, our correspondent piece. Sonal and I are joined by Amy Vaillancourt, the advisor for the Department of Communication, for a lightning round interview. Sonal: So with just five minutes on the clock, let's get started. Firstly, you recently joined us at George Mason as of last academic school year. So I have to ask, what's your favorite part so far about being part of our academic community? Amy: Well, first of all, thanks for having me. I really appreciate it. This is great. One of my favorite things about joining this academic community is how welcoming that everyone has been, both students and staff and faculty and everyone. So that's been a really positive experience and a great way to start my time here. So, I really appreciate that, but I am also loving how varied everyone's interests are, and how the all of the Stokes skill sets overlap, right? So folks are doing all sorts of and exploring all sorts of different kinds of cool things, from sports broadcasting to public relations to social media management. In theory, to research in fields like, under our center for Climate Change Communication. Communication is a great interdisciplinary program that I think everyone needs, and that I highly encourage everyone at Mason to get involved with. Zoe: Awesome. So finish this sentence for me: Your academic advisor is here to help. Not just with course scheduling, but also- Amy: -to help you get the most out of your time at Mason. We are your partners, whether that is from figuring out, a problem that you may be having to picking out the best possible classes for your particular goals, finding them, minor to thinking about what internships might be best for you, too. Connecting you to faculty, to connecting you to all of the great academic resources and community resources we have here at Mason, such as the students coaching, for example. Sonal: Awesome. Yeah. What's one question students should be asking you, but rarely do? Amy: My students ask me great questions, but I will take this as an opportunity to encourage folks to ask their advisors, how can they get the most out of their major right to come to prepare, paired to their meetings so that they have the kind of a deeper level conversation, not just the oh, what class am I taking next semester? Right. I think we can have much deeper, more interesting conversations together. So definitely that how you can get the most out of my major, and also what student orgs to get involved with. Your advisors know what is related to your major and what are some really great opportunities are. So I will send my students to everything, to becoming comm ambassadors, to working with the for the state, to working with the GMU TV and radio. We have many students who are doing even broadcasting opportunities within athletics across campus as well. So we're here to help connect you to all sorts of great opportunities. Zoe: What's one under the radar opportunity at Mason you wish more comm students knew about? Amy: One more opportunity that I think goes to slightly under the radar, but I try to talk to as many students as I can about this is our Comm 450. So that is getting academic credit for an internship that you may have. And you can do that throughout the year. But if you are thinking about an internship, if you are have applied and already received one, definitely talk to myself as well as our internship coordinator, about the possibility of taking that class for credit. That can give you a little more breathing room academically as well as in your schedule. So say you're working at your internship part time and you want to kind of reduce your course credit. You can look into whether or not getting academic credit for that semester is an option for you. Sonal: That's really interesting. Are there any common struggles that you hear about all the time and how students worked through them? Amy: I think overwhelm and kind of balancing everything is a pretty common topic. I think that's, very normal for all humans. We have those moments of of being extra busy or trying to address or accomplish a lot of goals. At the same time. That's definitely something I hear about from my students and from, other folks across campus and, and faculty and everything as well. I think it's a very human. I want to help students kind of break that down into smaller, more achievable goals. I also want to help connect students to other resources across campus that can help them to build up that resiliency and to build those skill sets about balancing that, whether, all of their their goals and their obligations. Right. So that might be the student success coaching or attending some workshops on time management with the Learning Assistance Office, whatever the case may be for that student, I also highly encourage folks to be involved and to make sure that they're building those personal relationships with their faculty, with their classmates, getting involved in student organizations. I think that connectedness is an important antidote, I'll say, or an important way to address our overwhelm. Right? When we feel like we're we're not in it alone, you know? So that's also what I'm I'm I hope that I am part of that for my students. That's my goal. Zoe: Wonderful. Is there anything else you think, maybe not just comm students, but all CHSS students should know? Amy: That they're in a great place to explore lots of different opportunities and to really specialize in what they're interested in. Right? To really dig in and, try different things and to take advantage of the resources here, including advisors such as myself, to make a curriculum and to pick the classes that they want to participate and learn about the co-curricular opportunities they have, either on campus or in, things like an internship, right, to really build their education and to start their professional path or prepare for graduate school, whatever that is, in what suits them best. Right? They've got some great resources here and a lot of flexibility and a lot of just cool classes to take. Right. And you never know where those interesting topics with the strange class night name might lead them to right down the road. Sonal: Alright. And finally, how can students find and get in contact with you? Amy: So I am on Patriot Connect, connect.GMU.edu. So definitely find me there. Always happy to meet with folks who are interested in declaring the major or minor as well, as well as all of my my students here in already declared in Comm. You can also email me at CD Advice cdadvice@GMU.edu. Sonal: Awesome. And that brings us to the end of the lightning interview. Thank you so much for joining us today. Amy: Thanks for having me. Sonal: And now back to the episode. Cadie: And welcome back. We are now in act two where this is going to be a little bit of a deeper reflection, although I feel like we've already gotten into a lot of reflection in act one. My first question for you is, you know, you talked about in act one that you started as a film major, then you switched over to communications. I would love to know what was that path of switching fields and switching majors like for you? Kozhiin: Like from a, like my experience? Like emotionally? Cadie: Yeah. Well, you know, was it an easy decision? Was this a path that, like, once you found it, it kind of slotted into place and clicked in your brain? Or was it more difficult to be like, oh, I don't really know like what I'm doing? Kozhiin: It was difficult. I think it was it was difficult because when you're deciding a major, there's always that, like looming concept of what job am I going to get? What am I going into? Why am I doing this? And the answer for communication that I mentioned before, it kind of, the reason I committed to it, the reason ended up being nothing related to I mean, that's that's not true. Not nothing. I mean, absolutely, I want to use this for, for a career 100%. But it wasn't what pushed me over the edge to, committing to this major, instead of film or instead of finishing my film major instead of, my film minor, which is what I did. I it's just that I like it, like, I just find it fun, and really interesting and valuable. I think it was part of what made it an easier decision. It wasn't an easy decision, but what made it an easier decision was that I could finish my film, minor. And that I did talk to advisors, and I was told that those do work well together, like having a film minor and a communication major is a good combination. Because like we mentioned before, like how they they overlap conceptually, they help each other out a lot. I think, that made it easier to make that decision, because I know that if I want to go into film, I can if I want to go into like media production type stuff, like, sure, maybe my major isn't 100% tailored to that, but it's the kind of thing where I think experience matters a lot. And, people value experience a little bit more, I think in, in those kinds of fields like media and film. Then they do, you know, specifically going down one academic path because it's not only academic, it's not all theoretical, it's very hands on. And there is a lot of theoretical stuff that you can bring from both a film major but also a communication major into film. So if I, if I end up wanting to do, I definitely know I want to do creative stuff. Yeah. Whether professionally or on the side. But I know that if I do want to do it professionally, I still can. So that helped me make the decision to help me realize that, like, there's a reason I like communications, and it's a lot of it is because the stuff I like about film is the same stuff that's in comm. And I can use those skills in film. From comm or just use them in comm. And I can kind of figure it out as I go and kind of do what kind of draws me in. Cadie: Yeah. Well, I know for me, when I decided to not go to film school and switch over, I entered George Mason as a journalism concentration, took a ton of journalism courses, and then it was actually the BAM program that made me switch over to PR. And then now that I've taken PR courses like I, I love it so much and like realizing that there's this very specific facet of the entertainment, like the entertainment industry. And I'm like, that's exactly what I wanted to go into. And like, my heart still belongs to writing. But as far as a day job, like being able to create a campaign that brings fans of movies, of media so much joy and connection, that is something that I think is really valuable. And so I think, you know, having those almost interdisciplinary, skills can really help, right? Kozhiin: Right. Cadie: I know you don't really have, you know, solid career goals. This is the this is the finish line. But, do you have some ideas about, you know, industries that you're drawn to or if you had to, if you had to have a dream job, what would the dream job? Kozhiin: I that's an interesting or it's interesting that you asked me that question now partly because I answered that question not long ago. A coworker of mine asked me this. I don't usually get asked that. And like I it was kind of the first time I answered that. Like what my dream career or job would be. I was also, while you're talking, I was I realized I was wondering, I think there it's kind of valuable to be able to have that. Like dream end goal and still have things like you mentioned that, like, you know, your heart is in writing. And like, you can still have that as, like something that you would love to do or you could even, you know, do on the side or whatever like that. I mean, I don't I don't want to, you know. Cadie: Oh, well, that's, that's the plan is to, to write on the side and do campaigns for different movies, TV shows. Right. Things like, that's the dream job for me personally. Kozhiin: But you have this like these other things that are fulfilling. It doesn't have to be that, right. You could do those in the meantime or work your way up. Or is that kind of how you look at it? Cadie: Yeah. I mean, anything public relations related? I've really fallen in love with the field. Yeah. So even just doing something like agency work or newsletter work, just something in media where I get to write about things that I'm passionate about, and tell a story in my PR classes, they call us storytellers, which I think is just really fun because was like, oh, yeah, like, this is what I've been trying to get to all along. And it's something that I really wish I was exposed to sooner. But, you know, I do think having the background that I do in film, in English, in journalism kind of helps the culmination of all right, that they, I don't know if you have similar experiences. Kozhiin: I do, yeah, 100%. It's cool that they say storytellers because that's probably the most accurate way of putting it right, I think. Cadie: I like it better than manipulators. Because, you know, we got a reputation. I'm aware. Kozhiin: Yeah. But I mean, you have to tell, you know, if you're telling a story, but that's what you're doing. You're telling a story and you have your perspective and, it doesn't have to be manipulative. In fact, it's not supposed to be. Cadie: Yeah, the code of ethics, guys. It's not supposed to be manipulative. It's actually. You can actually get in a lot of trouble, because if you break your audience's trust, like you're not getting that back, right? So, you know, be as honest as be honest, not even as honest as possible. Just be honest. Kozhiin: Right. There's only one right. There's no skit, right? Like you're honest, right? I think I, I've been trying to first of all, it definitely has been my experience that, you're asking about, like, a bunch of different factors kind of coming together, like, it has been like that for me. I've, like I mentioned before, like I think film and com go well together, like writing and English and comm and film go well together. These things are very like interconnected. There's really not much of a separation between them, actually. I think, it's just different fields. And growing up and even now, like, I've always been a very like, this is what I want to do. I'm going to do this kind of person end like, if I don't get, you know, this job or this position like that, I'm not going to settle. And, you know, especially as a kid, I was like that. And I think I've been trying to be a little bit more open minded to doing fulfilling things on the way to goals. And, focusing on the process rather than the destination. Because if you focus on the process like you're always succeeding, right? Because you're like acting out the process, like if you end up somewhere, it's really not up to you if you end up in in your dream job. So engaging the process that gets you there and rewarding yourself psychologically for engaging in that process, first of all, is the most likely way to get there. And then second of all, you're not worrying about the destination all the time. You're focusing on engaging in that process. And you don't have these, like, massive, you know, carrying this weight of expectation, because there are parts of that are out of your control. So I have been trying to be a little bit more open minded about other possibilities. So like, I could go, you know, I could do potentially some kind of consulting, you know, with, with comm skills and stuff like that. And, you know, I could go into some kind of media production maybe that isn't like my absolute favorite and goal thing, but, you know, there's there's some real value. This is something that I feel like I learned partly in the, in media production elements of my job, but also from the serving part. It you know, I didn't think that working in the service industry would feel valuable until I actually did work in the service industry. And then it's like you, it's not your dream job. It's actually quite stressful a lot of the time, but you gain a lot of these kind of valuable experiences from it. And, you know, I could I could have the same approach for, for, you know, careers and jobs in careers that aren't my end goal but are maybe steps towards that end goal, whether or not I make it to the end goal. Right. Like the process of going through the steps is valuable and life is kind of like long. Yeah. You know, like length of short, but life is also kind of long. And so you can do multiple things and, you know, different jobs will teach you different things that will help you in all sorts of different area, like being in the service industry can help you be on set, right? Like be good at. And you wouldn't think about that, right? Because it's like, how would being a server and making a movie, you know, be related? But it's like it kind of can be because there's all of these stressful elements and you have to work on a time frame and you have to be calm and.. Cadie: Deal with people. Kozhiin: Right? Exactly. Cadie: Then deal with big personality sometimes. Right? Kozhiin: Right. Yeah, yeah. And then comm comes in and that helps out as well. But if I do, you know, I'm trying to value those things more. But if I really, you know, had a this is kind of this may sound a little bit odd. My dream job would be probably being an animation director. Yeah, I would love to do that, but I suck at drawing right now. Cadie: That was my issue. That was my issue. I oh my gosh, I didn't know this that. So animation is what drew me in to film. I- Kozhiin: Pun intended? Or no pun intended? Cadie: No pun intended, actually. But I, you know, it was quarantine and I had this, like, very vivid, like children's animated TV series and at the time, so before film, before going to anything creative because I'm still in similar industry. I wanted to go into astrophysics. Kozhiin: Oh, wow. Cadie: Very different. And it was the animation industry that kind of changed that because, you know, Spider-Verse had just come out. We're beginning to see different trends in animation, and we were beginning to see the power that particularly children's and teenage animation holds. Yeah, those 20 tens classic cartoons like avatar, the last Airbender, Gravity Falls, in the 2020s and late 20 tens, we had The Owl House, which is another Disney show in similar vein. And having those shows really spoke to me. So I was like, I want to make one. And that's how I started. Kozhiin: Interesting. Cadie: But I can't draw. Kozhiin: Right. That's interesting. It like animation was also what drew me into film initially as well. Did you grow up with all of those? Cadie: Oh no. I actually found those in high school, okay. Which is part of the reason why I realized, like, my eyes had been open to what I could do creatively. Right. Yeah. Kozhiin: I do think that there's something really valuable about those shows and the fact that they're I haven't seen all of those avatars, kind of what stands out to me specifically. But there's something about them that's very, I think, universally and kind of unrestrictedly moving in kind of.. and it resonates with people. And I think it's partly because because it's a child, they're like children's shows. The first part because because they're children's shows, they have to be like, interesting. Despite the fact that they're, not gratuitous in any way. And they have to be, resonant without or mature without being like, having a sort of mask of maturity with, like, violence and stuff like that. Not that violence is always, you know, like immature, but it can be a, I think, sort of it, not necessarily mature in media. Cadie: You have to find a way to portray adult themes in a way that is palatable and effective to children. Kozhiin: You phrase that much better than that. Yeah, exactly. Cadie: Yeah. That's.. talking is my job. Kozhiin: So, you know, right there just the fact that you didn't, grow up with those, but it resonated with you later on is kind of what made me think of that. Cadie: Yeah, I was 13, 14 watching avatar for the first time, more so than seven eight. Kozhiin: Interesting. Cadie: Yeah. I didn't really have access to cable growing up until later on, and then at that point I was too old for cartoons. I wasn't actually. I watched I went through a really weird phase where I watched, like teen shows in sixth grade, and then I found cartoons when I should have been watching the shows aimed at high schoolers. I was not a, 13 Reasons Why kid in middle school, thank god. But some of my friends were. But the fact that some of us were watching that show at the age of 11, 12, 13 little alarming. Kozhiin: I remember that era. Cadie: Yeah, but I digress. Moving on. What's been your favorite project or research that you've done here at Mason? Kozhiin: The.. Cadie: Comm 490’s? Kozhiin: Yeah, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it's, you know, we're we're able to really do our own research. 00;58;52;02 - 00;59;14;16 Unknown I think that that's kind of under the, like, unquestionably the most. Yeah, it's definitely the most challenging in a lot of ways. Cadie: But I think that's part of the reason why it was so rewarding, though. Yeah, 100% is because.. Yeah, well, it's so great. Like the the senior capstone is the one that you can look back on and be the most proud of or at least have the most fond memories of. Kozhiin: Yeah, 100%. It's a great way to, kind of keep the passion. Yeah. Going like towards the end of the, my time, I guess with, with, with the major, I guess, I did you find, I mean, for me, partly what made it so, Like, engaging for me was just the fact that we could choose our own topic. Cadie: Oh, yeah. I I'm grateful about the topic that I chose. However, I kind of wish I chose something more fun, because I.. Kozhiin: What do you mean? Cadie: I did the white House Instagram account. Yeah. Kozhiin: So that wasn't fun? Cadie: Or. I mean, it was fun, but it was also like it was interesting because I was talking about very heavy topics like themes of democracy and political communication. And it was a deviation of something like media, which is like more where my heart lies. But it was still like very rewarding. And and I don't regret it. And in fact, like, I think it was good that I had a topic like that as the first one because it was the easiest one to, like, justify, even though we really could choose any sort of topic that we wanted. It just had to be related to communications in some way, shape or form. But I have a couple more like research projects that I'm storing in the back of my brain for later. Kozhiin: Do you think you want to, do that, like, even outside of Mason? Cadie: I mean, we'll see how I feel after grad school, right? Kozhiin: Right. Yeah. Cadie: What about you? Kozhiin: Yeah. I mean, I'd love to, I think the feeling of getting responses is like, it's kind of the same feeling as, like, getting a good grade. Winning a round in a video game, like, there's some reward circuitry that goes off when you get responses to your survey because especially because you've been working on it for so long and then you're like, wait, this is like real like people are actually reading. It was really weird getting the mturk responses, because that was within the course of like an hour like.. Cadie: And you got how many? Kozhiin: 200. Cadie: Oh my gosh. Kozhiin: Yeah. So it was like, but after struggling so much with it, it was stressful because it was last minute, but it was also like very like it feels great. Cadie: Yeah. That's a lot of responses. That's way more than I got. I mean I didn't do mturk but I got like 89 or 86 complete responses, 105 total responses. So you know.. Kozhiin: That's a lot of people for not using like a service. Cadie: I was I think we can be proud of the work that we did for that class for sure 100%. I want to talk about misconceptions because there is a lot for our major. I know like I see a lot of stereotypes about communications online. Right. And so I'm curious, in your opinion, what are some common misconceptions about comms and how can we debunk them? Kozhiin: So I have seen, mostly misconceptions in person and from people I've talked to, people I'm close with. The people that I'm close with that are a little bit harder to convince of things sometimes. Maybe a little, I don't want to say close minded, but cautious. Yes. And that's partly because I just don't spend that much time in online spaces where it would be discussed. So I'm, you know, sure, there are also misconceptions online, but the general misconceptions from the people, close with, like, some friends that are less, open minded about it are that it's like that. It's something you choose because you have nothing else to choose from or like, yeah, I've like interest issues from, that's probably the main one. Cadie: And I hear similar sentiment. The one that I normally think of is that it's like a useless degree like that. There's there's no job path. Which is not true. Kozhiin: That's literally just not true. Yeah. As far as I understand it, that is incorrect. It's very. Cadie: And as somebody who is scouring job boards trust, it's it's the job market is not great right now, but I still have an internship for the summer. Kozhiin: Right. So I think those things go together as well, which is like it's not something you just choose because you have no other ideas. And also because of that, it means it's a rich major with, with rich with, applicable skills, skills that are applicable across contexts. And because of that, I think marketable. And I'm not sure why people well, I guess that it my guess would be that these misconceptions exist partly because it's abstract. Like it's not a concrete. Well, it is concrete sometimes, but it's communication is an abstract concept. It's not like know like medical school or something like that. Cadie: And I think the communications major can differ so wildly from college to college. And your experience and how much you're going to get out there does differ from from university to university, because I'll be honest, there are some communications programs at different schools that I probably wouldn't go into. Because it's not as tied to direct skills. But I think here at Mason, because of one our location in proximity to DC and two, because of how amazing our faculty is. Like, I don't really feel that same pressure, I guess, that it's going to be a useless degree. I actually feel like it's going to be very helpful. Kozhiin: Right. Right. Yeah, it it does make a really big difference that, the faculty is so great and as great as they are. Yeah, I do think that it seems like the kind of thing that just kind of gets shared, like people will say, like, oh, communication- or not just for communication, but for a lot of, less concrete or, majors that aren't as concrete in nature. There's just sort of this sentiment that just gets shared that it's not like similar with like, philosophy or something. I don't, you know, philosophy is a very different major. And also I don't know what the jobs are like with philosophy. I don't, you know, I have no knowledge on that. But it seems similar in the sense that people are like, oh, you're going to be a philosophy major, like, what's the point of that? And, you know, I've been told that you can't get jobs with a philosophy major, and I don't know if that's true. Right. Like, I could very, you know, I could go and repeat that, but like, I don't actually know, like, I have no idea. And so I wonder if maybe that's what's happening with communication is like people hear that it's abstract and then they hear that it's not applicable, and then they'll just repeat it. Maybe that's not what's happening. Cadie: I do think it's a very common trend for the social sciences, though, like philosophy, like communications, psychology and sociology too. I've heard similar sentiment where it's very much like, oh, you just have money to burn. Then if you're going to get like a degree and then it's not going to do anything. I see it actually below a lot of Instagram videos of people, you know, celebrating that they're graduating. And then somebody in the comments will be like, yeah, would you get the degree in communications? Like it's an easy degree and like the accomplishment means nothing. Yeah, because of it. And I think that's a shame. Because like, I mean, yet it's not rocket science or music theory, but like, we still we still do work, guys. Kozhiin: And it is applicable in a lot of contexts. Like it's it's something that exists regardless of what situation you're in. So it's good to be good at it, I think. Cadie: For sure. Well, as we begin to close on this amazing episode of CHSS Connection Kozhiin, thank you so much for being here. Kozhiin: Thank you. Cadie: I’m so glad that we were able to do this right at the end of the semester to. But here at CHSS Connection, we like to give all of our guests the last the same final question. And that question is what advice would you like to give to our listeners? Kozhiin: That is a good question. I don't know if I'm in a fantastic position to give advice to people, but I guess if I kind of scour my experience a little bit general and see if there's anything that maybe could be of value. Cadie: I'm sure there is. Kozhiin: The tough thing is these kinds of things can often sound kind of like cliches. Maybe they are, but maybe that's what they're repeated a lot because they're helpful. But I think for me, value in like what brings me value has often been in unexpected places. Like I didn't know I wanted to be a comm major. And even though some of my goals are the same, I don't have, you know, one goal. But a lot of my goals are the same. Being in comm has actually helped me with those goals, and I didn't know it would. I didn't even know I would like comm. That was kind of an unexpected place of value for me, but also like, failing has been a value like I've, you know, done very poorly in a lot of scenarios or what would, you know, be considered kind of objectively poorly, whether it be at the in an academic environment or in a, you know, like in school or at work or personally, but those have been you know, it sounds cliche, but they really have been the moments of of growth for me. And I think that oftentimes stuff like that is coupled with, like a lot of internal, like, negative emotion, like it can be very difficult. Like, I think you experience a lot of negative emotion when you're actually like getting the most value sometimes, or you're in the spot of getting the most value. And I know a lot of people kind of say things along these lines, and I think it really is true. And in some sense, like I think there's there's a connection between that and fear. Like what brings you fear. And a lot of negative emotion is where a lot of the value lies. And you can't really see that often. I know I'm a little bit vague, but that that would be my answer is like, whatever. You're kind of you think about anything, you know, you get a little bit scared and your stomach drops a little bit and you're like, oh, well, you know what's going to happen? Like, what if I change majors? Or what if I, you know, do whatever it is that that kind of brings you uncertainty and like that uncertainty you kind of can't get away from, like there's a little bit of like a leap of faith you have to take. I from my experience, from my very limited experience of life, like that's where the value has been on the other side of that. And and no amount of thinking has kind of got me over that. Like leap of faith. And I know that's kind of vague, but but that's kind of the advice I'd give is ust kind of take that leap sometimes. Cadie: Yeah. No. And I think that's great advice. And it's it's interesting from doing this, this podcast, it's actually a very familiar sentiment that other people that we have on here are all saying, you know, take.. don't let fear stop you and I think that's really powerful. And it goes to show that if you want to succeed, you sometimes just got to take that leap of faith. Kozhiin: Right? That is the fear can be a great compass. Cadie: Yeah, absolutely. Well, Kozhiin this has been such a wonderful time where- Kozhiin: I for me as well. Cadie: Of course. I'm glad that you've enjoyed it. Is there anything or anyone you would like to shout out or promote? What are your post-grad plans and work and listeners find you on social media or in CHSS? Kozhiin: I, I don't really I don't really use social media. That's okay. So I don't I'm well, I, I have some accounts. I don't really use them. So I'm not really, it's a little difficult to find me there, but I guess just shout, like, shout out to the, faculty in the, in the, in all communication. Like, it's just they're all great. I've had a wonderful time with everyone. And and all of the students, like, everyone, has just been fantastic. Cadie: So shout out both Dr. Wrights. Kozhiin: Yes. Yeah. Both Cathy and Kevin, they're both wonderful professors. Yeah. Cadie: And then post-grad plans? Kozhiin: A good amount of self-reflection and then, some practical planning, a nice vague, but but that's what it is right now. Cadie: Wherever the wind takes you. Kozhiin: Yeah. Yeah. Right. And. Yeah, yeah. Cadie: I think in this, economy and in this job market right now, I think that is honestly sometimes the best we can all do. Kozhiin: Yes. Yeah. Cadie: Well, for one last time, because, I mean, thank you so much for being here. Kozhiin: Thank you. I really appreciate it. Thank you so much. Sonal: And that brings us to the end of the episode. And I've noticed you've been real quiet, but don't forget the mic works both ways. We'd love to hear any thoughts or questions that you might have for future guests or episodes. Send us your ideas or even request to be in an episode by emailing us at CHSSpod@gmu.edu. Zoe: If you enjoyed the show and would like to express your support, there are a few things you can do. You can leave a review wherever you're listening to this podcast. You can help by word of mouth, either by telling someone directly who might be interested in the show or posting about it on social media. Tagging @chsspod. All these things help support the show and we appreciate anyone who has done so or will do so in the future. Thank you for listening to this episode of CHSS Connection. This podcast is hosted and written by Sonal Prakash and Zoe Nix. Our audio engineer is Danis Gabitov. Our supervisor is Eleana Velasco. This podcast is produced by George Mason University College of Humanities and Social Sciences Undergraduate academic affairs. Special thanks to the Mason Innovation Exchange for access to the recording studio. The podcast could not happen without them. Sonal: This project was developed in collaboration with Career Services and the on campus Internship program. If you love the show and want to interact with more of our content, follow us on Instagram @CHSSPod, or check out the CHSS website where there's an ongoing library of our episodes. Zoe: Once again, thanks for tuning in and we hope you'll join us next time.