In this special spotlight episode, Cadie and Emma are joined by CHSS alumnus Rosser Howard to discuss being a Parole Officer.
EMMA: Welcome to CHSS Connection, a podcast where we interview different students about all things CHSS, from academics to careers to everything in between. This is a student success podcast for CHSS students by CHSS students. However, if you're not a CHSS student, welcome! We're so glad you're here. I'm Emma Howard. CADIE: I'm Cadie Junker. BOTH: And we're your hosts. CADIE: In this month's spotlight episode, we're sitting down with a criminology alumnus. Of course, we could not do this alone, seeing as we are not alumni and we didn't study Crim. So today we are joined by a GMU alumnus, Rosser Howard. Rosser, thank you so much for joining us. How are you doing today? ROSSER: I'm good. How are you? CADIE: I'm doing great. Excited to be here, sitting down with you and talking with you. EMMA: I'm also excited to be here with you because, fun fact, listeners, Rosser's my brother. So this is a really, really special and exciting episode. CADIE: Throwback to our pilot episode when you said like, oh yeah, everybody in my family went to GMU. This was always going to be like my school. ROSSER: And none of us wanted to go here. EMMA: No. ROSSER: It just happened like that. CADIE: It's so funny to be considering this was a school that I actively wanted to go to. ROSSER: Really? CADIE: Yeah. Well, I wasn't going to go to UNM. ROSSER: Okay. CADIE: No hate to UNM. EMMA: Well, let's get started. We're going to kick off with, Rosser, please tell us about your time at George Mason. ROSSER: You know what? At first, I was kind of hating on George Mason, but, you know, I really did love my time here. I met a lot of my best friends here. I'm getting married in the spring. My best man I met at the fraternity I was in here at George Mason. You know, I loved every time. I learned a lot. The biggest thing I learned was really just how to be accountable for myself, right? How to stay on task. That's really the biggest thing you learn. Once you get out into the job field, they'll teach you everything you need to know. So don't really stress about learning any material. I mean, yeah. You need to learn and you need to pass your classes, but really just focus on making yourself a better person, showing up, staying detailed, working hard. EMMA: So I know you are a CLS Criminology degree. You got your Bachelor of Science in Criminology? ROSSER: Yes. EMMA: What drew you to study a BS in Crim here at Mason? ROSSER: So I always really wanted to be in some form of law enforcement. At first it was being a police officer, and then I kind of got through, you know, where I wanted to go. I'm like, there's so many more options out there. I knew I wanted to be a probation and parole officer. It's kind of a hard spot to get right away. And once you graduate school, it's a really competitive field to get into because it's actually such a great job. So initially I started, you know, graduated from here, joined the Department of Corrections as an officer, did that for seven years, working at various state facilities. I got a lot of really good hands-on experience. At the end of the day, you really have to want to help people, right? That's the big driving factor behind a lot of what we do. Even if they don't want to help themselves, you got to find it in them. EMMA: I know you mentioned you're a part of a fraternity. ROSSER: Yes. EMMA: During your time here at Mason, what resources or organizations were you involved with? ROSSER: So, I was on Phi Kappa Sigma. Okay. I don't even know if they're on campus anymore. I'll be completely honest. I didn't really hold a position, I had a made up position. I was designated the Couch Chair. The Couch Chair just sits in the back of the room and makes sarcastic comments and then like complains about stuff and then does nothing to fix it. CADIE: So you were comedic relief? ROSSER: I was comedic relief. Yeah. I've been that most of my life. EMMA: Well, okay. I do have to make a note. I did not know you were the Couch Chair. It makes it funny in my eyes a little bit because Rosser and I's sister, Julia, who's also an alumna here from Mason, she was a nursing major. She has a niece who I think we've jokingly called you Uncle Couch sometimes. ROSSER: Uncle Couch. Yeah. I really got Uncle Couch because I lived with Julia and Nick, Nick also an alumnus at George Mason. EMMA: Yeah. CADIE: Jesus. EMMA: Across the board. I'm saying. The Howard family does not play around. ROSSER: No. CADIE: I have not met one other person from my state who goes here. I'm pretty sure when they say, “We have people from all 50 states,” I'm the one from New Mexico, and they're like, “Oh yeah, we can now, we can say we've got representatives from all 50.” ROSSER: Yeah. No, we have.... CADIE: There's more people from your family that have graduated from here than my entire state. ROSSER: We had a cousin that got her master's here, I mean. EMMA: Our parents graduated from here. ROSSER: It's crazy. CADIE: It's a great school. It's a great school. ROSSER: Yeah. But I really got that Couchman nickname because I lived with Julia and Nick for a couple of years when I was working for DOC as an officer. And I was always tired at the end of the day. And so they would always come in and see me sleeping on the couch. And so the dogs would, they have two dogs, Roxy and Bailey, and they would come in and like swarm me and they'd just be all over me on the couch. I'm like, oh, there's the Couchman. Go get the Couchman. So I am affectionately known as Uncle Couch. EMMA: Yes. ROSSER: Nothing wrong with that. EMMA: Oh no. CADIE: I love that. You had mentioned that you have always wanted to work in law enforcement. ROSSER: Yeah. CADIE: What do you do now? ROSSER: So I'm a probation and parole officer. I work out of the Manassas office in Prince William County. I've been doing it for, we're going on a little over a year. It's been an adjustment, very different from what I was doing when I was working inside the institution. But I love every second of it. There's no day that's the same. There is no typical day. It's the best job. That's what I wanted coming out of school. CADIE: Yeah. As much as you can tell us, because I know that you work with very case sensitive details, what do your responsibilities entail? ROSSER: So primarily as a PO, you have two primary goals. Now there's a million other things that we do. It just falls under that umbrella. One is you have to hold your guys accountable, right? Accountability is a big thing. If they can't hold themselves accountable, you have to hold them accountable. And more often than not, we run into guys that they don't know how to hold themselves accountable, right? They've never had to. So it's your job to hold them accountable, not only for their standards for probation, but for the public, for the court, and for themselves. The other big thing we do is connecting with resources, right? So when they come in, and they're initially starting on the supervision, they take a, I don't want to say it's like a test. It's really just like an interview, but they answer some questions. And we determine what we call their risk needs, right. So that can include like substance abuse history, criminal past, non-compliance issues, residential stability, employment, right? Do they need help in that area? So we take those scores, we look at it, and it comes back as, you know, unlikely. Like they don't really need help in that area. They're good. Or like probable. Eh, kind of. Or to like highly probable, where it's like a high focus need. CADIE: Right. ROSSER: So we really want to tackle those high focus needs for guys. For example, employment's a big one right now. CADIE: Right. ROSSER: I've had guys on my caseload who have been incarcerated for 10 years. You know, they were 20 when they went in. They were 30 when they got out. Or even longer than that. I've had guys that have been locked up for 20 years. CADIE: Yeah. ROSSER: When they get out in the world, it's a culture shock for them, right? It's a whole different world. So it's your job as the PO to help set them up for success. Yeah. CADIE: What drew you to this position? It sounds like it can be very challenging for a wide variety of reasons. But you said this was something that you always wanted to do. ROSSER: You just, you always want to find the good in people, right? And that's really why I wanted to do it. Because, you know, life is never easy. There's many challenges. I always say, I always tell guys, I was one wrong mistake away from being you. In some ways, I can relate to these guys and their challenges. I understand. What drew me to it is I just want to help them. I want to help them. Even if they don't see the good in themselves, you got to find the good in them. And then even if you can just get one guy, like one guy to buy in, it makes it totally worth it. And it's not my success. I don't want to look, it's not my success. It's their success. And them seeing their success. That's huge. CADIE: Yeah. EMMA: I'm curious, how do you handle the emotional, mental, ethical labor and challenges of it all? And in supporting these individuals? ROSSER: One, you have to prioritize yourself, right? They always say, drop it at the door. When you leave the office, you got to drop it at the door. I go home. I have my fiance. You know, we have our cats. You know, we enjoy that. And also, something I've come to realize over the last year is, you can't take it personal. You can't take it personal. Meaning, it's not my supervision. It's their supervision. I'm there to help them. I'm not there to hold their hand. CADIE: Right. ROSSER: They have to take accountability for themselves. And initially when I started, when someone wasn't doing like what I asked, I took it personally. I took it very personally. Like, what am I doing? Is it my fault? And sometimes you got to self-analyze and that's okay. But at the end of the day, you got to understand, it's their supervision. CADIE: Yeah. EMMA: So, I know you said that there's no typical day in the role. That was one of the scripted questions. So, your answer can also be, there still is no typical day. But if there were, what would that look like? ROSSER: Well, when I find one, I'll let you know. But I can kind of go through a general day of what things kind of look like for me. So, I get to my office around 7.30 a.m. I have my agenda set out for the day. Usually, because I work, like I said, in an intensive caseload that specializes in domestic violence. So, a lot of my guys are high-level supervision. Meaning, I need to see them face-to-face, whether it's in office or at their residence, at least once a month. So, and I have about 70 cases right now and about 40 of them are high-level cases, right? So, I typically schedule about four meetings a day, right? 9.30, 11.30, 1.30, 2.30. Sometimes, you know, people miss. Things happen. You got to reschedule. You deal with that when that time comes. So, you tackle those meetings first thing in the morning, right? In between those times, you're trying to get your notes done. Because like I said, if you didn't write it down, it didn't happen. So, documentation is important. So, you write all your notes down. Usually, in between there, you have to put out a fire or two. Meaning, you get calls from probationers all day. I probably get about 15 to 20 calls from probationers a day. Dealing with various needs. Sometimes, it's... I'm like, why are you calling me, man? Like, I understand you want to travel. It's three weeks away. Calm down. I'm going to get to it. But sometimes, it's more serious. Sometimes, you get guys dealing with a mental health crisis, right? And that needs to be tackled right then and there, right? I've had guys call me and say, Officer Howard, I want to go back to jail. I can't do it. That needs to be tackled right then and there. So, that's an emergency situation where you need to get them into your office immediately, right? So, sometimes, it changes a little bit. You know, you still kind of deal with your scheduled stuff throughout. You know, and then we also do drug screens. As a male, I get called on a lot to do those since most of the people in my office are females. So, it's... You know, as a male, you have to drug screen a male. So, I probably get called to do those probably like 10 times a day. And that's another challenge. You've got to sit down and refocus yourself. That temptation to pick up the phone and scroll on TikTok is very real. It's serious. So, there's that. And then, we typically have meetings with our team once a month. So, we have to sit there. And now, we've got to schedule a meeting once a month. That takes about... You know, those take about an hour. And then, I wrap it up. I usually get home around 5:30, 6 o'clock. It's a full day of work. You are tired when you get home. It's not physically tiring unless you're doing home visits. But you are mentally exhausted. CADIE: Yeah. I want to ask because I know this is something that you mentioned in the social media promotion. One of the top priorities is making victims feel safe. Since you are working with people and domestic violence cases, can you talk a little bit about what you do to help those victims feel safe? ROSSER: Yeah. So, as a PO, we're not necessarily allowed to have direct contact with the victim because our priority is the probationer, right? CADIE: Right. ROSSER: That being said, we always take community calls. Mm-hmm. If a victim wants to reach out to us and say something and report to us something that might be going on, we're always listening. But the best way we feel like we can serve the victim is by serving the probationer to the fullest extent. That's getting them the help they need, right? That's referring them for programs, decision-making programs, anger programs, victim impact. Something that helps them kind of grasp the totality of what their crime was. Because a lot of guys don't put two and two together, unfortunately. They don't see anything wrong with what they've done. So, the best way we do that is we really need to serve the probationer and help them get on the right track. CADIE: Yeah. ROSSER: Yeah. CADIE: The accountability aspect, as you mentioned earlier. ROSSER: It's the big thing. Accountability is everything. I tell my guys that's the biggest thing when it comes to, especially me on supervision, we have conditions throughout supervision, but condition six is report as instructed, be truthful, be cooperative. I always tell guys that's my big emphasis. If you don't show up, you're not truthful, you're not cooperative, I can't help you. I can't work harder than you. It's your supervision, not mine. CADIE: Yeah. Going back to your time at Mason, how did your coursework or professors here prepare you for your role? ROSSER: Criminal justice here at George Mason is such a broad field. CADIE: Absolutely. ROSSER: You do a lot of different things. I wish I could say that there's any specific class I took or curriculum that really set me on the path that I'm on now. It's just not necessarily true. The biggest thing I would say is get out there, get an internship. Get those connections, get those resources. That's the big thing is getting your foot in the door because it is such a broad field. Getting your foot in the door is the hardest thing. CADIE: Yeah. ROSSER: Yeah. CADIE: I think even though that's not necessarily coursework related, being here at Mason still set you up to get those resources, to get those internships because of the location we're at. ROSSER: Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. George Mason's a great school for criminal justice. You have the federal government right up the road. There's a lot of great local agencies you can go to. There's state police, Prince William County, Fairfax. Probation and parole. Come on over. We need people. If you want to go the Virginia Department of Corrections route and be a correctional officer, you can. They're always looking for people. It's not necessarily a good thing that they're always looking for people, but I can go on for an hour about that. I'm going to drop that. EMMA: Well, that's a perfect segue actually into the next question of for current Mason students interested in criminology or corrections, probation, what skills or behaviors or habits do you think are most valuable or competitive on an application? ROSSER: One, make yourself a diverse candidate, right? I didn't honestly set myself up for the best success getting out of Mason. If you can speak a foreign language or if you can take a class Arabic, Chinese. If you can speak those languages, you will set yourself up great if you want to go to the federal level. Learn a foreign language. Attention to detail is everything. The littlest things mean everything, right? Those little small things those subtle cues, those little clues, definitely learn to pick up on those. So attention to detail. Good writing habits. You don't want to write a letter to the judge, and it's filled with errors because they're going to rip it up, and then you're standing there, and they are looking at you like you're the dumbest person they've ever seen. So good writing habits. Take a writing course for sure. That's really it. Just be attention to detail. Be a good person. Do the right thing. CADIE: Yeah. ROSSER: Yeah. CADIE: One thing, what you said about the language, it really does stick out to me how much Mandarin has become so much more popular and so much more of an important language for us to learn. I think that growing up, at least for me, I was always so used to English being the dominant language. Now we're actually kind of starting to see that shift. ROSSER: Yeah. No, absolutely. I know a lot of guys that they got jobs with the FBI with no criminal justice background at all, but because they had some sort of IT background and they could speak a foreign language... The truth is, honest to God, is these agencies, they like that you have a criminal justice degree, but they're going to teach you everything you need to know, right? Each agency you work for has its own set of policies, has its own set of rules. They're going to teach you everything, right? But what makes you different is what you can set yourself up for. So set yourself up for success. CADIE: Yeah. Our next question does kind of go back to what you said to your specific position as a probation and parole officer. That is, what is a misconception about your job? ROSSER: That we're always out to get people. We're not always out to get anybody. In fact, it just makes more work on us. Not saying we don't like doing our job, but having to write violations on people, it's not what we want to do. We don't want to sit there and violate everybody. I mean, at the end of the day, they are the drivers of their supervision. They are the ones that, frankly, hold a lot of the power. We're there to help you not hold your hand. You have the power. If you do what you're supposed to do, supervision can be incredibly easy, right? We're not out to get you. We just need to make sure you hold yourself accountable. So we're not out to get everybody. Trust me, we don't want to write all that paperwork. We really don't. EMMA: Shifting that question a little bit towards, like, your caseloads, what is something that you think the general public should understand better or have a maybe more compassionate outlook on the clients you work with on probation and parole in general? ROSSER: So, unfortunately, there's a really terrible stigma when it comes to people who have committed crimes and been incarcerated. Not saying they weren't guilty. Not saying they didn't deserve to be punished. Not saying that at all. But what I'm saying is that these people more often than not have some sort of history. Whether it's personal, family-related, mental health diagnosis that has just been undiagnosed their entire life. They don't know. They don't know why they are the way they are. They just are. I try and show as much compassion as I can because their whole life, they just have gotten the hammer. And they don't, not everyone needs the hammer. They just need a little guidance maybe a softer hand. They're people too. Give them a shot. CADIE: Have you seen the movie Sing Sing? ROSSER: I have not. CADIE: This is related on that topic of humanizing incarcerated or formerly incarcerated people. It's a movie about incarcerated people and their theater troupe within the jail and them creating this community together. ROSSER: Mm-hmm. CADIE: And a lot of the people in the movie play themselves. ROSSER: Oh, wow. CADIE: So, highly recommend. ROSSER Sing Sing. EMMA: That does sound like a good film. CADIE: It is a good film. ROSSER: Alright. EMMA: Rosser, reflecting on your first year as a probation parole officer, what has surprised you the most? ROSSER: Oh, man. I'll be honest, it is the sheer amount of work. I thought coming from an institution, being a correctional officer for so long, nobody worked as hard as a CO. That's what I thought. My first year, the amount of work I've done has been has increased exponentially. The amount of time you just spend, you know, frankly, you're sitting in front of a computer documenting all day. It's mentally straining. I was like, oh, yeah, I'm good. I don't have to work a post anymore. I get to just sit behind a desk. It is not as easy as it sounds. But you really do it for the person next to you. I have a great team of people I work with. I love them to death. Without them, I couldn't do the job. I harass them with questions every day. Mm-hmm. Within this first year, I have learned something new every day. There is, like I said, no typical day. Every situation's new. So you have to be willing to ask questions for sure. CADIE: Yeah. What's been really interesting as we've been able to sit down and talk with more and more people who have a job in their specific field or an internship in their specific field is that emphasis on what you learn in school is indeed valuable, yes, and it will prepare you, but you are going to learn so much on the job that nothing can really compare to on-the-job learning and education of you firsthand going out and doing these things. ROSSER: Yeah, you gotta be coachable. Gotta be coachable. You gotta be able to take criticism. Not every day's gonna be your best day. You're gonna mess up. Don't be hard on yourself even though everyone's hard on themselves, especially when they start a new job. But be coachable. It's okay. It's okay to mess up. CADIE: Yeah. Again, looking back on your first year, what have been the most meaningful or transformative moments in your role, either with your clients or within the community at large? ROSSER: I had one specific guy. He wasn't doing what he was supposed to do. And they wanted me to violate him, meaning they wanted me to write him up, send him back in front of the court, and maybe get his probation rescinded. But I really felt like this guy just needed a chance. He really needed a chance. That's the one, if you get him to buy in, makes it totally worth it. We were able to get him the help he needed, and he's doing excellent. That little bit of hope just keeps you going. CADIE: Yeah. ROSSER: So it just helps you a little bit more trying to find that good in people. CADIE: Yeah. EMMA: Looking back on your time at Mason, well, and then now, how has being a George Mason alum set you up for success in your professional life? ROSSER: Actually, it really has. I mean, I meet a lot of people. A lot of people I work with actually went to George Mason. Actually, about half the people I met went to George Mason. CADIE & EMMA: Oh, wow. ROSSER: But it's great because Mason really has a great connective network throughout Northern Virginia, Maryland, D.C. specifically, but really throughout the country. You can always network with people. It really sets you up for success in the long run. EMMA: I want to ask more questions, but I mean, like, it's wild that we're at the end of our time. CADIE: I mean, we've been recording for 25 minutes. That's right. That is how long the spotlight episodes are supposed to be. EMMA: This has been so interesting. CADIE: I know. EMMA: I'm your sister, and I'm learning all these things for the first time. ROSSER: We should talk more. EMMA: We should. CADIE: Well, Rosser, thank you so much for being here and for sharing your insights and experiences about a position that I know I knew very little of outside of the few movies that I've seen where, like, like in Ant-Man where he has, like, an incompetent parole officer, and he's, like, you know, always playing tricks on him or whatever, and then certain other movies where they are played as, like, these hard characters who are, you know, like you said, setting you up to fail, whatever, whatever, and it's good to see that that is not the case in reality. ROSSER Not always the case. CADIE: No. We're already at our time. ROSSER: Darn. CADIE: Which is crazy. This has just flown by. I know we say that for every episode, but this, really, I wish that we could talk more. However, we've arrived at our last question, and we like to ask all of our guests this final question. That is, do you have any advice for our listeners? ROSSER: Be authentic. Be yourself. Especially when you get out into the workforce, the only person you can be is yourself. Don't be anybody else. CADIE: Amazing. EMMA: Perfect. Succinct. Great way to end. Well, once again, Rosser, thank you for being here. I'll see you in a week for Thanksgiving. ROSSER: Actually, I'm going to Pennsylvania, so you won't see me in a week for Thanksgiving. EMMA: Christmas. ROSSER: Yeah, I'll see you at Christmas. EMMA: Fantastic. Before we close, is there anything or anyone that you would like to shout out or promote? Where can listeners find you on social media or LinkedIn? ROSSER: You can't find me on social media. I'm not on social media. I don't want anybody to find me on social media, especially probationers, so I stay off social media. CADIE: Valid. ROSSER: If you need, if you have any questions, feel free to email me at my work email. It is Rosser, R-O-S-S-E-R dot Howard, H-O-W-A-R-D at V-A-D-O-C dot Virginia dot gov. If you have any questions, feel free to reach out. Shout outs. Shout out to you guys for having me on. This was fantastic. Thank you so much. Shout out to my lovely fiancée, Rachel, and our two cats, Mason and Ashton. Mom, Dad, Julia, Nick, and Nolan, Margo, and Olivia, our nieces and nephews, for sure. CADIE: The rest of the Howard family that will inevitably end up going to GMU. ROSSeR: Yeah. There's really no choice. When I have kids, they're... Sorry, kid. They're coming here. EMMA: Oh, yeah. Well, again, final time, Rosser, thank you for being here. Listeners, thank you so much for listening to this episode of CHSS Connection. CADIE: Hey! Thank you for listening to this episode of CHSS Connection. This podcast is hosted and written by Emma Howard and Cadie Junker. our audio engineer is Dennis Gabitov, our supervisor is Eleana Velasco. This podcast is produced by George Mason University's College of Humanities and Social Sciences, Undergraduate Academic Affairs. Special thanks to the Mason Innovation Exchange for their recording studio. The podcast could not happen without them. This project was developed in collaboration with Career Services and the On-Campus Internship Program. If you love the show and want to interact with more of our content, follow us on Instagram @chsspod or check out the CHSS website, where there is an ongoing library of our episodes. You can also be a potential guest on our podcast. EMMA: If you enjoyed the show and would like to express your support, there are a few things you can do. You can leave a review wherever you are listening to this podcast. You can help by word of mouth, either by telling someone directly who might be interested in the show or posting about it on social media, tagging @chsspod. All these things help support the show and we appreciate anyone who has done it or will do so in the future. Again, thank you for tuning in to this episode. We hope you will tune in to the next episode, where we are joined by Tereana Battle to discuss the Global Affairs Program here at George Mason. But until then, stay curious! CADIE: Stay creative! BOTH: And stay connected!