CHSS Connection Podcast Episode 8: Halls to Horizon -Inside the World of Law

 
  
EMMA: 
Hello, welcome to CHSS Connection, a podcast where we interview different students about all things CHSS, from academics to careers to everything in between. This is a student success podcast for CHSS students by CHSS students. However, if you're not a CHSS student, welcome, we're so glad you're here. 
  
I'm Emma Howard.  
 
CADIE: 
I'm Cadie Junker. 
 
BOTH: 
And we're your hosts! 
 
CADIE: 
In this episode, we're joined today by a senior criminology student, although she is a dual degree student. And if that wasn't impressive enough, she has also worked as a paralegal at a local law firm for the past three years.  
 
Please welcome to the show, Lily Amin. Lily- 
 
LILY: 
Hi. 
  
CADIE: 
Thank you so much for joining us. How are you doing?  
 
LILY: 
I'm good. I'm so excited to be here. 
  
EMMA: 
We're excited to have you here.  
 
LILY: 
Yes.  
 
 
CADIE: 
Okay, we are going to go ahead and get into our act one of general questions. 
  
And this will be, of course, drawing from your experiences, but these questions will be more factual, more informative for any Crim majors listening or people who even just have an interest in criminology and law.  
 
LILY: 
Okay.  
 
EMMA: 
And I can take it away because I'm curious. 
  
So your dual degree or dual-  
 
LILY: 
Yes.  
 
EMMA: 
Dual degree.  
 
LILY: 
Yes. 
  
EMMA: 
So we know that you're a criminology major. Do you have like a minor or a concentration in that?  
 
LILY: 
Yeah. So I am a criminology major, but I'm also concentrating in criminal justice. 
  
And then besides that major, my other degree is an integrative studies degree concentrating in legal studies. And then because I was kind of in the realm of law, I had taken a lot of like social justice and human rights classes. So I decided to minor in that as well. 
  
And then the electives that I kind of had to take throughout my integrative studies time and even some of my criminology time also led me to childhood studies. So I'm also minoring in childhood studies as well.  
 
CADIE & EMMA: 
Wow. 
 
EMMA: 
So your dual degree, your Crim is concentrating in... 
 
LILY: 
Criminal justice.  
 
EMMA: 
Criminal justice.  
 
LILY: 
Yeah. 
 
EMMA: 
Your integrative studies degree is-  
 
CADIE: 
Legal studies.  
 
EMMA: 
Legal studies. With a concentration, you just said it. 
  
LILY: 
No, yeah. Legal studies. This is the concentration. 
  
EMMA: 
Concentration is legal studies.  
 
CADIE: 
And then a minor in-  
 
LILY: 
Social justice and human rights.  
 
EMMA: 
My goodness. 
  
LILY: 
Yes.  
 
CADIE 
Wow. That is so impressive. 
  
LILY: 
Yeah.  
 
CADIE: 
And on top of that, you're a paralegal.  
 
LILY: 
Yes. 
  
CADIE: 
And can you tell us a little bit about your job?  
 
LILY: 
Absolutely. I love my job. So I've been here for about three and a half years. 
  
I got into the whole area of law basically in my summer getting out of high school. So from that, I got my job at an estate planning law firm in Fairfax City. It's literally right by the courthouse. 
So it's actually very close to Mason. It's probably just a mile away.  
 
I love my job. 
  
And because of my job, I think that I've really connected with the things that I've studied at school as well. But there I am a paralegal. And a paralegal is kind of someone just that assists an attorney on the job and is kind of just like a little baby office assistant and attorney there where I'm not the one necessarily giving legal advice, but I'm right by my attorney's side all the time, constantly, whether it's in client meetings, drafting documents with them, or even just doing day-to-day tasks for them. 
  
But also, I think that it gets a little bit deeper when you have to kind of take initiative and helping them prepare things that they otherwise would have to spend hours and hours and hours on, whether that be court filings or annual accountings or inventories for people's assets and their estates. So, it's a lot of things to keep track of, and you have to be really, really detail-oriented and organized. But that's just the area of law that we focus in, as well as a little bit of real estate as well. 
  
But other than that, and also helping small businesses as well, that's another thing.  
 
But I think that it's a really cool area of law, because everyone always needs to have a will. Or everyone is, sadly, everyone's going to die at some point, and you need to take care of what exactly are you going to be leaving behind for your loved ones, or how do you want to prepare for that, or even while you're still living, just figuring out a way to take care of your assets in a way that is responsible and organized. 
  
So yeah.  
 
EMMA: 
That certainly sounds like a really, one, just really cool job, but then also really necessary.  
 
LILY: 
Yeah, it is. 
  
EMMA: 
For anyone who doesn't know, what does a paralegal do? You already kind of answered this, but what does a paralegal do versus a lawyer or an attorney?  
 
LILY: 
Yeah. So I think that a paralegal is pretty necessary to actually getting to the step of working with an attorney, because we're basically the ones that when someone comes to us with an inquiry of like, hey, can you help me? We kind of see, can we help you or not? Because we know the job of what the attorney himself is doing. So we're kind of like the stepping stone of getting someone into the door. 
  
And then we are constantly assisting an attorney on the job to help them put a case together for someone or help them create legal documents for a certain person or their family or their estate in general.  
 
Other than that, I think that a paralegal is basically just like, I would say, it's just another way of saying a legal assistant, you know, not to like minimize what we do or anything, but I would say that we're basically doing the work of an attorney without a legal degree, like a Juris Doctorate, because we pretty much do a lot of the grunt work. More so because, honestly, technically speaking, an attorney doing, you know, a certain task at my office, if an attorney does a task for a client, they're billing their clients at $475 an hour. 
  
But then if I'm doing a task for the client, they're only getting billed $180 an hour. So it kind of makes things really cost-effective on the client, because if it's, you know, the attorney doing everything, then that's going to cost an arm and a leg, you know? So yeah, I think that paralegals basically just do the grunt work of what actual attorney work is.  
  
CADIE: 
Yeah, no, that's, that's wonderful to know, as somebody who is familiar with law, but doesn't know all the intricacies in it. And I know you kind of already mentioned it, but what specific law does the firm you work for specialize in? Does it have like a specific name?  
 
LILY: 
Yeah, so it's Estate Planning and Trust Administration. So when I, funny enough, when I first was looking at this job, I was like, what the heck is estate planning? What the heck is trust administration? But that's basically like I was explaining earlier, that's like, taking care of like, a household or like a family or someone's being itself of like, them not only while they're living, but also, you know, beyond the grave. 
  
So that you can kind of plan for things in advance, such as creating a will, creating, you know, a trust for someone that like, let's say that, you know, a set of spouses want to leave something for their kids and have them, you know, set up for life after they're gone or even enjoy things while they're still there.  
 
You kind of put all these different puzzle pieces together in order to think of things that normal everyday person wouldn't really think of, oh, I got to think of this bank account, I got to think of this thing that like, you know, jewelry or assets or real estate, you name it. And it's, I think it goes beyond just like creating a will or creating like a financial plan for someone, but it's also just like setting up how you're going to store and use your livelihood.  
 
You know, it's important thinking about like, finances, maybe right now as a college student, we're already thinking about like smaller scale finance, we're like, oh, I gotta, I spent this much on groceries, I spent this much, you know, eating out, but it goes like way beyond that when you have like, you know, a big girl or big boy job, you got to think of these things. 
  
CADIE: 
Mm hmm.  
 
EMMA: 
Yeah. It sounds like this job has provided a really great window into this career field. 
  
I'm wondering how has this informed your future career goals?  
 
LILY: 
So, I think that I already knew prior to getting this job that I wanted to go into law. Like I said, I really didn't know what estate planning really entailed at the time. But in my head, I saw that as an outlet to the area of law to not only just have on my resume, because I knew that, you know, four years down the line after undergrad, I'd have to be applying to law schools. And I needed something to show that look, from day one, this girl has been interested, you know, in the legal field.  
 
So I think that it's translated to not only just like reaffirming that I wanted to stay in the legal space, but it's also just giving me a great introduction of what it's like to work with attorneys, what it's like to be an attorney, even though I'm not.  
 
But I feel like I have to put myself in my boss's shoes all the time. It's so, so, so important, putting yourself in their mind to kind of see what's something I'm forgetting, what's something that I need to do with something that maybe I could remind him about that, you know, it could be like, oh, really good catch. I didn't even think of that. Oh, my God, you're right. 
  
I think that that's like the most rewarding part of the job is like, I'm not even an attorney yet. And I mean, God willing, I become one. But sometimes I feel like really blessed that I've already kind of been in a space that sometimes I may catch something that, you know, we haven't thought of. 
  
But even when I forget something, I'm so grateful that it's like, oh, thank God I'm not an attorney yet. You know, obviously, I haven't, you know, gone to law school and like, been completely trained for like an attorney's job. But it's just I think that it's rewarding and humbling at the same time, because it shows you that you have so much to learn, but at the same time, you can learn so much even before law school. 
  
And I think that's a really good, you know, thing to have at this time.  
 
CADIE: 
For sure.  
 
I know you mentioned law school. And I would just love if you could tell us a little bit about what are your future career goals?  
 
LILY: 
Okay, this is like, I feel like it's ever changing just because I know that I mean, anyone who kind of wants to go into the legal space, they know that. I mean, it could change every day. It's bi weekly, you don't know. 
  
So I have always loved the idea of being a little corporate baddie. I just want to be, you know, like someone that you take seriously, you walk in the room and you're like, oh, she's got it figured out. And I want to kind of feel like I'm like on Suits or something. 
  
But like at the same time, I think that these days, I've been thinking about personal injury for some reason. I don't really know. I think that, well, I do know part of it was like the cha-ching that I heard when I was like, ooh, money. 
  
But at the same time, I think that I actually happen to have my cousin in law, he owns like a really successful business in personal injury in like, San Diego. And I don't know, I think that like, the lifestyle that he's created for himself and for his family. It's like really, really inspired me. 
  
And like, I'm seeing my cousins living the good life. He practically retired her like super quickly. And I'm just like, wow, buddy, I'd love to learn from that and like, do something like that. 
  
So I think that in general, I just I've heard the way that like his job goes. And I think that's like inspiring even from afar that I'm just like, wow, that's so cool.  
 
But other than that, I think that probably something in the realm of like, corporate and personal injury is like something that I kind of go back and forth a little bit on. 
  
But I don't know. They're like two kind of very different things.  
 
CADIE: 
Yeah. 
  
LILY: 
But it's definitely like, you know, there's always room to try all of it. You know, you never know. You could do anything you want. 
  
 
 
CADIE: 
And in law too, like there's so many we were talking about this before we began recording, but there are so many facets of even just civil law, like not even touching criminal law.  
 
LILY: 
Absolutely.  
 
CADIE: 
There's so many intricacies that you can go into. And so I think that that's just really exciting.  
 
LILY: 
Yeah.  
 
CADIE: 
About the field. 
 
LILY: 
Absolutely. There's so much room to do anything, really, because you can go criminal, you can go civil, you can go litigation, all of that. It's all very exciting in their own different ways. 
  
And that's why I think that I'm just I'm just happy to go into a field that I'm not necessarily tied down to like one thing, you know, because like I said, you could change your mind any day. And then and then what? You're stuck with a degree that it's so boxed in and constricted. Absolutely not. 
  
I think this is like something that it can just be like a chameleon and just, you know, morph into different things. And you can you can try different things at any time.  
 
EMMA: 
In your experience, does the same thing apply to this? This flexibility apply to geographic location? You mentioned that your cousin in law is in San Diego. Are there certain hotspots that are geographic hotspots that attorneys are gravitated? 
 
LILY:  
Yeah, absolutely. I definitely think that we're very lucky that we live in D.C. This area is just like or at least close to D.C, it's like this itself is a hotspot because we're on Capitol Hill. If you really think about it, that's like you would think if you know... 
 
 
CADIE: 
That's a lot of lawsuits. 
  
LILY: 
Absolutely. Absolutely. So I think that like the D.C. area, DMV in general, you know, I mean, it's just it's just crawling with this stuff. 
  
And then New York, California, basically any like major state or city that you really think of.  
 
I mean, I mean, everyone's always going to need a lawyer at some point in their life for something, whether it be like traffic, you know, or I don't know, litigating something or, you know, like a little personal lawsuit or estate planning.  
 
Hey, you always need a will. And just so you know, writing your own little thing in your drawer and saying like, oh, please give my fish to whoever. It doesn't actually count for anything. Go get it. 
  
Go get it done with a lawyer. So, yeah, I think that everyone's always going to need an attorney, but there definitely are hotspots. And I would say it's just wherever you think is like a major city or state. 
  
That's probably one of them. Yeah.  
 
EMMA: 
Coming back to your role as a paralegal, what's your favorite part of the job?  
 
LILY: 
My favorite part of the job is honestly the relationships that I've built there. 
  
I definitely have, you know, like some besties in my office, whether it be in my own firm or just people that we share the suite with. Some of them are paralegals, some of them are attorneys. But I absolutely just adore the people at my job. 
  
And I think that they make coming there really fun and they can make the stressful days a whole lot better because sometimes you've got a really pressing deadline or sometimes you have, you know, maybe like a client that's like having a bad day of their own and then they can take it out on you. And I think that sometimes it can just be really stressful. But the people around you and the people that you work with, they do so much to either make or break your mood even more. 
  
You know what I mean? So I would say that my favorite part of my job is, in fact, the people that I work for and with for sure.  
 
EMMA: 
I think that's a really I mean, I think that's so lovely to have a really supportive environment, because as you're saying that, I realize that I personally don't think about the emotional labor that you all are doing.  
 
LILY: 
Yeah. 
  
And I don't know if you'd be willing to speak to that.  
 
LILY: 
Sure. Sure. 
  
I think that I myself, I'm a very emotionally in tune person and I like to use my emotional intelligence on the job because when you think about it, imagine like someone is calling you and their spouse just battled cancer and then they lost, you know, like it's just that, you know, they put their best in and then things happen, you know, like that's life.  
 
But someone is super fragile and they're calling your office basically saying, help me. You know, you need to really put yourself in their shoes and you need to really just think about what are you going through? How can I speak to you with as much kindness and sympathy, empathy and just overall respect as possible to make this process that's so difficult that much easier for you, even if it's just by a fraction of a percent. 
  
But I think that when you put yourself into a client's shoes, whether it's they're dealing with a loss or maybe they're actively dying in some really candid situations, truly speaking, like someone's dying, their spouse is dying. You need to be as kind as possible.  
 
And I think that like that's definitely something that sets me apart as someone that wants to enter the legal field, because I mean, even like the attorneys in my office are like, oh, like she's a shark. Guys, beware of Lily. She's a shark. But at the same time, they know that like I'm just I'm just like a little like, I don't know, I'm just a girl inside and I feel I feel for people and I feel things deeply. 
  
So I do have like that little like cutthroat vibe that I can give off when I need to. But anyone that knows me on a daily basis, I crack one smile and that's it. You see right through me. 
  
My act is over.  
 
So, yeah, with that said, I think that being kind to the clients and understanding just how difficult any situation is, you know, people they don't even like talking about death, period, you know. So for some people, just even the idea of it, it's like, OK, no problem. Let's take this one step at a time and let's be as, you know, transparent.  
 
But also, I guess, like understanding of your feelings is possible while making such big decisions for someone. And I think that that's really important to just kind of have that consideration for people. 
  
 
EMMA: 
Yeah. And I'm sure that your clients really appreciate that as well.  
 
LILY: 
Yeah, definitely. 
  
EMMA: 
I have to add, when you were bringing up the shark image, it made me think of the sharks from Finding Nemo. Like you can have that sharp edge, but it's also like fish are friends.  
 
LILY: 
Absolutely. I love that.  
 
CADIE: 
To pivot here just a tad, how does your CLS experience and education play into your role as a paralegal?  
 
LILY: 
So I'm super thankful overall for my time as a paralegal while also being a full time student, because I went into this job with the people at my firm knowing that I am a full time student at George Mason. And, you know, I will have to be part time there, but I can definitely be flexible with the way that I work and also, you know, head to my classes. 
  
And, you know, sometimes there's like a test I need to study for. And I'm like, listen, I you know that if I could, I'd be here. But I have to be at this exam at this time. And they're super understanding.  
 
So I think that that's something that if you're thinking about being in the legal field while also being a full time undergrad student, please be conscious of where you're applying, because you need to think about is this person going to understand that I actually have a really other huge commitment other than this job, you know, because school is it's no easy feat.  
 
You know, you can't do it all and juggle all these different moving parts and then expect that it's all going to be fine if you don't plan ahead and really sign up for things that you can really commit to. 
  
I signed up for this because I knew I could commit to it. I knew that I wanted to challenge myself and, you know, work full time, put time into my week, also working as a paralegal. And I think that it's super important to understand that sometimes you can't do it all. 
  
Sometimes you need a break. Sometimes you need to prioritize yourself, your mental health, or even you're preparing for something else like the LSAT.  
 
I know I had to do that this summer. 
  
And, you know, even up until last week, I was studying for my LSAT. And that takes up so much time to be a full time student, to work, to do things, you know, extracurricular that it's you know, it's a lot. But you need to really think about what you're getting into before you actually get into it. 
  
And my time in my major and overall completing these degrees, it's just shown me that not only do you need discipline within an educational realm of everything, but you need to also translate that to your work life as well. You can't forget about either one because you'll fall behind in some way. So that's definitely something to think about. 
  
CADIE: 
Also, I'm assuming because you just stopped studying for the LSAT, you've taken it now.  
 
LILY: 
Yes, I have.  
 
CADIE: 
Congratulations!  
 
 
 
LILY: 
I'm so scared. 
  
CADIE: 
I'm sure that you did fantastic.  
 
LILY: 
Thank you.  
 
CADIE: 
When do scores come out?  
 
LILU: 
It actually comes out at the end of this month. 
  
So right now we're shooting this in November and yeah, we'll see. I think it's November 26.  
 
EMMA: 
Okay. 
  
LILY: 
Pray for me!  
 
CADIE: 
We will. We will.  
 
LILY: 
Thank you. 
  
CADIE: 
But I'm sure that you don't need it.  
 
LILY: 
Yeah.  
 
CADIE: 
I'm sure you did fantastic. 
  
LILY: 
Well, let's be humble.  
 
EMMA: 
Well, no matter what happens, please make sure to give yourself grace and time and space to process whatever the result is. I have full faith in you. 
  
But I know what my goodness, the end of November is a very tough time for students.  
 
LILY: 
I know. I know. 
  
Yeah, absolutely.  
 
CADIE: 
And regardless of the score, you still took the test.  
 
LILY: 
I know. 
  
CADIE: 
You did that. I could never do.  
 
LILY: 
I did that, you guys. 
  
I feel like such a big girl.  
 
EMMA: 
You are. You're being that corporate baddie. 
  
LILY: 
Yes, guys. Corporate baddie alert. Thank you, guys. 
  
You guys are so nice.  
 
CADIE & EMMA: 
Of course. Of course. 
  
 
EMMA: 
Coming back to your time here at Mason, in conjunction with what you're doing in your job, has there been a moment where something you have learned in class has directly related to something you were doing in your job?  
 
LILY: 
I would say yes. And I mean, you can name a whole bunch of instances, but probably the biggest one is in some of my classes in law that deal with ethics, because I mean, even just growing up, my dad and my mom, they were both such big advocates for being ethical in everything that you do in your school, in your work life, in everything. And I think that I always grew up with that state of mind anyways. 
  
But then coming to these law classes that they talk about how important ethics is in the field where you need to be as ethical as possible, because I mean, honestly speaking, lawyers kind of have a bad rep. They kind of, you know, it's a little snaky, maybe, or maybe they're a little unethical at times, or some people at least have that vibe, you know?  
 
So I think that was something that some of my classes have really focused on, is being ethical when you practice law. And I mean, I see that all the time with my boss, you know, he's the head attorney at the firm, and he's really big on, you know, just being ethical, because otherwise, you know, what do you have? You don't have ethics, because people won't trust you. 
  
It kind of shows in the different things that you do, whether it's being ethical with deadlines or filing with the court or, you know, something as simple as like a signature where it's like, hey, like, does somebody need to sign this? Or did you sign this? Or do you need me to sign this for you?  
 
And it's like, no, like, someone has to do it the right way. It has to be done the right way, every single little moving part, even if someone was already in the office. And like, for example, with our like, wills and trusts, like, sometimes they'll have to clients that come in, they have to like, signature, like put their signature at the end of like, the whole document. 
  
And then throughout the entire document, they're putting their initials. Sometimes they miss even one page of initialing. And I'm like, damn, like, I could easily just easily just do and look, it's their initials right there. 
  
No, they did it! But at the end, it all comes back to ethics. You can't just you can't cheat. 
  
You can't kind of like, cut corners or anything. It's better overall, it's better for everyone in the situation. So sometimes the easy way is not the best way out. 
  
I think that sometimes you've got to really just make sure that you're doing things the right way, regardless of if it's easier or not.  
 
CADIE: 
Yeah. What you said about the initials, it brings me back to a story that I have. 
  
So in third grade, our teacher wanted us to bring our planners home and have our parents check it off.  
 
LILY: 
Oh, my God, I know that's right.  
 
CADIE: 
And if we did that for a full week, then we would get a stamp and we would get a reward. 
  
And I was having a perfect week. And I forgot one night.  
 
LILY: 
Dun dun dun. 
 
CADIE: 
And so I decided, well, why don't I just sign my dad's initials?  
 
LILY: 
Yeah, yeah. 
  
CADIE: 
Because they're really easy to sign. My mom does like an actual signature, but my dad just does his initials. It's fine. 
  
It's fine. So I do it. I get my stamp. 
  
And then the next day I go and my and I give my planner to my dad and he goes, I didn't initial this.  
 
LILY: 
Uh oh.  
CADIE: 
Did you forge my signature?  
 
LILY: 
Oh, no. 
  
CADIE: 
And he got so mad. And for context, for listeners, my dad is a lawyer.  
 
LILY: 
Oh. 
  
CADIE: 
So I think he got so upset because he could see this path like my daughter is turning to a life of crime and fraud.  
 
LILY: 
Oh, my gosh. He's just envisioning that. 
  
CADIE: 
And you know what? I never copied my parents signature ever again.  
 
LILY: 
Oh, no. You know what? Off the record, I've done the same thing and the same thing happened. 
  
I was caught by my mom and that was it.  
 
Yeah. Wow. 
  
EMMA: 
Hopefully this doesn't say too bad about my parents. They totally would have just encouraged me like, Emma, we worked. Just sign the name, please. 
  
It's fine. Oh, my God.  
 
CADIE: 
I don't think it was necessarily the fact that I was the one to sign it because my mom's done that before. 
  
She was like, yeah, just sign it. Whatever. Yeah. 
  
LILY: 
No, that's different. Because like you're giving consent.  
 
CADIE: 
Yeah. 
  
I didn't get his consent. I maliciously put the little initials. Didn't even show it to him. 
  
And then, yeah.  
 
EMMA: 
With as much malice as a third grader could muster.  
 
CADIE: 
I really wanted my stamp. 
  
LILY: 
Oh, my God. All of this just for that little reward. Oh, no. 
  
CADIE: 
But I never did it again. I learned my lesson.  
 
LILY: 
Period. Things happen.  
 
CADIE: 
They do. They do. 
 
LILY: 
You live life. You learn something.  
 
CADIE: 
Yes. 
  
LILY: 
It's fine.  
 
 
CADIE: 
Yeah. It's fine. I did indeed learn.  
 
LILY: 
Good. Good. 
  
CADIE: 
Our next question. What was the hiring process like for you?  
 
LILY: 
So this is pretty interesting, which is what I was kind of talking about earlier about like my situation being a little bit unique. So I was coming into the board of the Afghan Student Union even in my first year. 
  
My brother was already on the board and they were like trying to, you know, set out applications for people for an upcoming board. And I was, you know, one of the few people that I guess stood out to the people. My brother was in no way in support of me coming in. 
  
He was like, he was like, everyone else can vote. I'm not voting. I'm not having anyone think this is like, you know, some Nepo baby coming in or something. So my brother wasn't part of this vote.  
 
I ended up being voted on to the board of the Afghan Student Union at George Mason. I really enjoyed my time while I was on it. 
  
But because of that, someone that was previously in the Afghan Student Union at George Mason also worked at my law firm before me. And she had let my brother know who was the president that year. She was like, hey, like, you know, if you want to put on the social media that this law firm that I've worked at is looking for a paralegal position to fill because I'm leaving, that'd be great. 
  
And my brother was like, Lily, Lily, Lily, you gotta go and apply for this. You know, I'm going to put this on the story. But like, you got 30 minutes before I put this on the story. 
  
You need to go and apply right now. And my only experience ever was at that point. I had just worked for, you know, my dad's practice for a couple of months. 
  
And that's not in law. That's a whole different area of focus. And I was just like, dang, I really only have a couple of months under my belt. 
  
You know, and God knows that somebody is going to take that seriously because that's like my dad's place, you know. And other than that, I didn't have anything. So I still I still went and I applied. 
  
I created a resume super quickly. And I really just focused on what I did in high school.  
 
Thankfully, I was very, very determined in high school. I graduated with the IB diploma. And for those of you that don't know, that's international baccalaureate degree for high school. And that's just like something that is similar to an AP diploma. 
  
I'm sure a lot of people know that instead. But every time that I say I'd be like, what's IB? I don't know what that is.  
 
CADIE: 
Oh really? I went to an IB middle and high school. 
  
LILY: 
Oh, really? 
 
CADIE: 
Yeah, I didn't stay there for high school. So I didn't get the IB diploma. But a lot of my friends did. 
  
LILY: 
Yeah, yeah, yeah.  
 
CADIE: 
I've heard things.  
 
LILY: 
Yeah, yeah. 
  
CADIE: 
But it's it pays off. I swear. It's just miserable in the moment. 
  
LILY: 
Absolutely. Absolutely. It's a lot, a lot, a lot of hard work. 
  
But because of my time in IB, which was equivalent to college level courses, that's why my attorney could see that. Okay, well, look, she's ambitious. You know, she's been taking college level courses for years and years and years. 
  
She must know a thing or two. She's seen a thing or two or something. So actually, they took a chance on me. 
  
And in my head, I was like, wow, like, what did I do? Like, I mean, I knew how hard that diploma was. But in my head, I was like, why are they even interested in me? Even just like during the hiring process, like getting calls from people and going in person and meeting with them.  
 
And it was because my boss's son, he has four of them, and they went to the same high school as me. I went to Robinson Secondary and they actually had like tried the IB diploma and like they did some IB classes or they were interested in it and they hadn't you know pursued it or finished it or what have you and so my boss was like wow you did IB that's awesome like you you must be a killer.  
 
And I was like I guess so if you tell me that sure yeah man like thank you for noticing thank you!  
Yeah I basically I got the job because of my high school experience which I really would never thought that like that's what would set me apart I knew it set me apart in my college applications you know with my everywhere that I applied they definitely saw me for the candidate that I really was because of my diploma, but I didn't think that would translate to like a law firm but thankfully he knew because of his kids.  
 
And they told me that the reason why they were actually even asking that old paralegal to come in is because they've only ever had Afghan women as their paralegals and I was like why and they were like we just we see the work ethic and I was like well that is true. So I was Afghan, I had done the IB diploma, and that was it so I guess that's kind of what got me there. 
 
It’s interesting. I don't know that's like that's pretty I really would never thought that my ethnicity would help me if anything in America I would have thought that'd be like oh maybe you'd be like a diversity hire. Take pity on me please yeah no but that's I mean it helped me. So yeah.  
 
CADIE: 
I do think there is something to be said about like culture and work ethic yeah like it's less so about absolutely like your ethnicity and more so about like like I come from a Latino family-.  
 
LILY: 
Oh you do?  
 
I don't look it but-. 
 
LILY: 
Girl you're a queen either way.  
 
CADIE: 
Thank you, appreciate that.  
 
LILY: 
My Latina queen.  
 
CADIE: 
Thank you! And you know I think that there are definite like cultural elements that come into work ethic and come into being ambitious, and that does shine through. And I'm not trying to be like white people aren't ambitious because you are! You are!  
 
LILY: 
Everyone is!  
 
CADIE! 
Everybody is! But I also think that like in certain families and in certain ethnicities, there's even more of a pressure to go and make something of yourself.  
 
LILY: 
Yeah, and I have that for sure, I mean, like my parents they literally escaped war in Afghanistan in the 80s, so for them to come all this way immigrate to America learn a whole new language leave their loved ones behind and start this beautiful lives for themselves, there really is no excuse for me to not be the best version of myself.  
 
Which I think is why, I mean, you can see I've really pushed myself, at least I've tried to because I'm like I want to be something as good as them, if not try to be better. I don't really know if there is better than them, but like, at least in my eyes, but I want to make them proud because of how much they've gone through and how much I care about them, and I see their struggle.  
 
So, no, I want I want to do that for them for sure, 100%. And I think that that's probably why they've seen so much like so many women like me in the past in their firm have that same type of attitude or something similar to it, which is why they can see that work ethic for sure. Yeah. 
 
EMMA: 
Yeah. That's really beautiful, and that's really sweet. And I think you should certainly feel, I feel like your parents just should certainly feel proud of you, but then you should also feel proud of yourself. Not just because of how you're honoring their their legacy and the work that they've done but just feel good for yourself and the fact that you have done these things.  
 
LILY: 
Thank you! They're probably listening when this comes out.  
 
EMMA & CADIE: 
AWWW. 
 
LILY: 
Hi guys!  
 
EMMA: 
Hi Lily's parents! Your daughter's incredible!  
 
LILY: 
Salam! Love you, guys.  
 
EMMA: 
So, coming back to your criminology major, do you have any tips for how other crim majors who want to become a paralegal....  
 
LILY: 
Can do it? Okay.  
 
CADIE: 
That phrasing makes very little sense.  
 
EMMA: 
I'm like actively reading that, okay.  
 
 
CADIE: 
Okay. Do you have any tips for other crim majors who want to become a paralegal?  
 
There we go.  
 
EMMA: 
There we go, yeah, great.  
 
LILY: 
Okay.  
 
EMMA: 
So that question. 
 
LILY: 
Yeah sure! Okay, let me think.  
 
I would say networking. Why do I say that? Because I had a criminology professor of mine who actually made it like an assignment to create a LinkedIn and to you know, like really put all your bio data on there and just be like listen, this is who I am, this is the work I've done, this is the education I've had so far.  
 
And me already having a job like I just saw that as like an exercise of okay, like in the future I'll I'll need this. But then I really like started to connect with people on LinkedIn and I just saw how many job offers I was getting.  
 
I'm not trying to flex, I'm just saying, like it just happens on LinkedIn, where like you get job offers and like some of them, I bet you some of them are bots or like AI or something, but like at the same time some of them I'm looking at I'm like yeah that's real.  
 
And like thankfully, I have a job, and like they see I have a job, so maybe they're trying to compete for that position or something. But I would say LinkedIn.  
 
You know, you should really put yourself out there, and like, it's one thing to be shy, like in other aspects of social media, that's fine. You don’t have to put your business out there everywhere, but maybe LinkedIn, don't go and give your address or something, but like be as detailed as possible of like what are your ambitions? What are you doing to achieve those ambitions right now?  
 
And then talk to your professors! You know, even you guys see in our email we get all the time, like there's like random things that are pop up, that's like, oh job opening here, and like opportunity for internship here.  
 
Join clubs! I'm also part of Mason's pre-law group, and Phil Mink is the guy who kind of like runs that, and he works very closely with Mason Law. And you know Mason's law programs in general. I mean, I see almost every other email is him basically being like oh paralegal opening this position here this position here.  
 
So obviously it's going to be a little competitive because everyone's getting those emails, or maybe a lot of people are getting you know different opportunities here, opportunities there. But like, go for it! You know, put yourself out there. Don't put all your eggs in one basket and such. You know spread yourself a little bit.  
 
See what you can get, and then pick the one that works the best for you, and that you love the most or you think you'll love the most. You don't know prior, but like just try it. Try something  
 
Yeah.  
 
EMMA: 
Yeah, as someone who really needs to update their LinkedIn I like check on it and then I don't check on it super often.  
 
LILY: 
Yeah.  
 
EMMA: 
It actually like undownloads itself from my phone.  
 
LILY: 
Oh my God, me too! Absolutely.  
 
EMMA: 
Do you have any tips or suggestions for how someone can have a really active or appealing LinkedIn?  
 
LILY: 
Yeah!  
 
So anything you do, really, especially as a student. because you really don't have a degree to your name, yet, you know? Like, besides just like a high school one or something. But I would say your volunteer experience put it on there, you got an internship, put that thing on there immediately, you know? Like, don't even hesitate one bit. You helped your professor with like a paper or something, like you're doing, you're part of a journal? Do that. Put that on there. You're part of a society or a club? Put that on there.  
 
I mean, I even have my Afghan Student Union experience on my LinkedIn as well. Does that got to do with law? Nope. But does it have to do with leadership and organization and showing that you can, you know, help a group of people in one way or another with whatever volunteer experience you do, or look, I actually can lead people and I'm a leader in this way?  
 
Everything that you do, somehow some way can go back to a skill. Whether it's leadership, whether it's organization, something's going to show some type of skill. Better to have it on there than to not, you know?  
 
CADIE: 
Yeah.  
 
LILY: 
And who knows? Maybe like something that you're a part of is actually something that a recruiter really likes or like a job is just interested in for some reason.  
 
Like if you're part of a sport and you put that sport on there that, it's like oh I played three years in Mason's soccer team or something, that you don't know if that recruiter loves soccer, maybe they'd want to hire you just because you guys could bond over something to begin with. You have no idea.  
 
So I think that, especially as a student, put every single thing on there.  
 
CADIE: 
Yeah.  
 
LILY: 
Yeah  
 
CADIE: 
And ,you know, let recruiters decide what's not important.  
 
LILY: 
Absolutely.  
 
They can focus on that themselves. They can do that themselves, that's fine.  
 
CADIE: 
Our next question for you is how has becoming a paralegal impacted your law school journey?  
 
LILY: 
I think it has only helped me. I don't think it has hurt me in any way, really.  
 
CADIE: 
For sure.  
 
LILY: 
Probably the only quote “hurt” it's done is it does take time, obviously. In the days that I am there, it takes time away from what I could be studying with, or like I said, I was preparing for the LSAT. That was a lot. So, that did take away from LSAT studying time for sure.  
 
But I think it also helps me because the moment that you know these law school admissions teams are looking at my application, they're saying okay so wow, okay, she did this with her time at Mason, she got these grades, that's great., So what else did you do? Did you fill your time just twiddling your thumbs, or did you actually do something?  
 
Thankfully, I did something for three and a half years so far, so they'll see that it's shown interest like I said since day one. But also it shows that you can clearly work, thrive, and succeed in a legal environment. How do they know I'm succeeding?  Hopefully they'll see that in my letter of rec.  
 
Which is another thing, please think about that wherever you're working, your letters of rec. If you're going to you know graduate school or something like that, they matter. They really do matter.  
 
So these people want to see people that work with you all the time. Admissions teams they want to see people that they work with you on a daily basis, they know exactly who you are, they know your work ethic, they know your strengths, your faults, and they still choose you every day, despite any faults, you know. So, even just me being there, they can see that okay, no, she's successful because clearly she's not fired, she hasn't left, there's not a problem necessarily, and then she has a rec.  
 
At the end of the day, it just shows that you know not only did you spend your time wisely during your educational career, but also you have people that are in your corner as well. So I think that being a paralegal has only, hopefully, we'll see how the admissions process goes, but I would say that it's only open doors.  
 
Just because anyone that I really talk to that's in the law school world or they themselves are a lawyer, they're telling me, you did the right thing. You did the right thing coming here, working here, and putting in hours there because all that time it shows real dedication, and I think that at times it can be a lot to manage, but so worth it in the end.  
 
I really, really, really do recommend anyone who is in my shoes, if you're going to law school, if you're thinking of law school, even if you're just contemplating it, go out and get a job that's kind of similar to that field, you know, at least. You know, do something, and even if it's not, still put that on your resume, still put that and apply because law school is, at least from everything that I'm seeing, trust me, I'm consuming so much media about law school admissions, they care about everything you do. But it's especially cool if it's something in the legal field because it just shows you want it, you know? 
 
CADIE: 
Uh-huh. 
 
EMMA: 
As we start to close out Act One I want to leave you with the, or ask, the question of what's been your favorite memory in your professional life?  
 
LILY: 
I would say it's just the jokes that I have. It's just the jokes, whether it's with the attorneys at my firm, or it's even the paralegals, like there's just so many people that I come in and we're all just joking all the time. We're always joking, and there's such a, it's so funny, there's such a big age gap in our firm because the paralegals are all people like my age, and they're like 20s, early 20s, mid-20s. I'm the youngest person there, I'm only 21.  
 
But then there's like all these attorneys that like, they've had so much experience under their belt, that's like someone's dad, someone's grandpa, that we're just joking around like we're like best friends. And I don't know, I think that like it's just it's just a different type of dynamic that you make, like as someone who's like so fresh in the field with people that have been there for so long that like, it's not that they would take pity on you, but they're like oh you're just a kid.  
Like you have so much time ahead of you, but then like you just go back and forth, and you make these like really great connections that like....  
 
I don't know, I feel like if I would tell a story of anything that's happened to our firm, my dad knows I tell stories when I come home from work, and like they take 15 minutes to get through one topic, because like, and then this happened, this happened, oh yeah, and that, and that. So, I don't know I think that there's just there's too many that if I gave one, this pod would be going on for way too long.  
 
EMMA: 
Oh well, we thank you for your consideration about that.  
 
LILY: 
Yeah, there's a lot of editing.  
 
EMMA: 
But still I think I the fact that you have so many incredible memories speaks again to just how lovely work environment that is. 
 
LILY: 
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.  
 
EMMA: 
And with that, we're going to close out Act One. Listeners, you're going to hear from our career correspondent, Rachel Lindsey, as well as CHSS announcements, and resources, and whatever other things Cadie and I have prepared.  
 
CADIE: 
Yay! Transition music.  
 
CADIE: 
Don't skip this! This isn't an ad break!  
 
EMMA: 
This is the bulletin board. In every episode, this is where we will announce upcoming events and opportunities in CHSS, hear from correspondents, and give shout outs to the resources that make this podcast possible.  
 
 
RACHEL: 
Hi. My name is Rachel Lindsey, Assistant Director for Career Education at University Career Services . I'm also a two-time CHSS alum and you can reach me at r l i n d s e y at gmu.edu  
 
University Career Services is located in SUB 1, suite 3400. That's directly above Student Health Services, and our office hours are 9 to 5 Monday through Friday. We also offer virtual  advising 7 to 11 p.m Sunday through Thursday.  
 
University Career Services at George Mason University provides a broad range of resources to help students build skills, explore careers, connect with employers, and succeed after graduation. Some of the most important services we offer include general career support and advising. So things like career advising appointments to discuss your goals, explore possible career paths, or get help with internships and job searches, document reviews where peers and advisors can give feedback on resumes cover letters and professional materials.  
 
Major and career exploration assistance to help you understand options related to your interests and strengths. We also offer job and internship support, so things like Handshake job and internship platforms with listings tailored to you, Mason students. We also offer career fairs and on-campus interviewing with employers from a range of industries, and we help set up networking and employer events that connect you with alumni and professionals.  
 
We also offer things like a Career Readiness Guide and industry-specific career resources on our website. We have virtual appointments and drop-in hours to support both in-person and online students, and tools like Career Shift and LinkedIn Learning for job searching and skill building.  
 
For our students studying Criminology, Law, and Society, University Career Services offers several supports relevant to Criminology, Law, and Society majors. That includes career advising specific to justice careers related pathways, including criminal justice, law enforcement, public policy, and the intelligence sectors. We also have resources for job and internship search assistance with links to FBI careers, intelligence jobs, and government opportunities.  
 
Of course, we provide resume and interview help tailored to careers in legal and social sciences fields, and we have events that help with things like networking with employers who seek graduates for public service analysis or compliance roles.  
 
And a pro-tip here is to use Career Services to get connected with local criminal justice agencies or non-profits and explore security clearance preparation, if your career goals get linked to federal or investigative work, and think definitely about coming to the Clearance-Ready Program to learn more about that.  
The landscape is, of course, always changing, but one of the things we really encourage students to think about is thinking broadly and exploring all of the opportunities. We are physically located near some of the really exciting prestigious three-letter agencies that people really think of first, but there are, I want to say, over 50 different federal law enforcement agencies along, of course, with like state and local jurisdictions and so thinking about where to get experience, right?  
 
If that is starting as a George Mason University police cadet, if that is starting in some other local jurisdiction, if that's starting in a jurisdiction closer to home. And then there are other parts of what's expected in those specific roles, and that's where you would want to really look into what does it mean to be a DEA agent versus an FBI analyst. The requirements, the expectations are not the same and knowing which ones are the most important for you and your goals.  
 
The other thing is thinking about things like, what else can I study at the same time, is it psychology? Is it mastering a critical language? What else can I be doing that really makes me a good fit for the kind of experience that I want? Because this is such a broad field, and there are so many versions of what this can look like, knowing what you need to do to be a really good fit and a really qualified candidate is super important.  
 
There are a couple of resources when you're thinking about preparing for law school. There's a course called UNIV 421 College to Grad School. That is a one-credit course that students can take that will help you explore all kinds of graduate programs. If, when, why, how, as well as start to prepare the application materials so things like a personal statement that you would need, and requesting letters of recommendation.  
 
Beyond that, of course, Career Services is always happy to have a conversation about graduate study and which kind of graduate program makes the most sense, and if it's law school, how that application process varies a little from some other kinds of graduate study. And of course there's the Patriot Pre-Law program through the SCHAR School, and so they have a lot of additional resources. Both programming that they provide and resources on their website.  
 
We have also some ideas, some suggestions, we make for all students in all majors. I think this is especially true the closer you get to an active job or internship search, when you want to be ready to move forward at any minute.  
 
You want to create and regularly update your Handshake profile so that you're receiving tailored job and internship matches, and so that you're ready to apply when something shows up that is interesting. You want to attend career fairs and workshops early and often, not just in your final year, and part of that is so that you are building relationships and building connections, and part of it is so you can get comfortable and familiar with what that looks like and feels like before the stakes are high, right?  
 
Things like career fairs can be very overwhelming, and so what we hate to see is the first time someone has gone to a fair is the last semester of their senior year, and it feels really overwhelming, and it's just too much, and they feel like they didn't know what to do, and then they feel like they missed the opportunity. So go early, go often, get comfortable. Aim to learn one new thing from at least one new employer, and then when the stakes are high, when you know you need to get that internship, when you know it's time to get job offers it's not so scary and brand new.  
 
And then as far as meeting with us in Career Services, to schedule a virtual or in-person meeting use Patriot Connect, and if unable to schedule an appointment through Patriot Connect call university Career Services  at 703 993 2370 for assistance. 
 
CADIE: 
Thank you again to Rachel Lindsey. Career Services does so much at GMU so please be sure to check them out now onto your CHSS announcements.  
 
As always, every week we have the CHSS Pop and Talk in the Horizon Hall atrium, and that is on Thursdays from 2:30 p.m. to 4:30 p.m. Stop by, chat, ask some questions, whatever you'd like, just pop in and talk.  
 
The next thing that I want to highlight is our Undergraduate Research Symposium. If you have done research within the past year, including this semester, and you're a student at CHSS, then we want you at this event. Abstracts are due April 10th, and would you look at the date it is indeed April 10th, so abstracts are due today. Make sure you get them in.  
 
However, if you haven't done research within the past year, or don't feel like presenting your research, you are still welcome to come and see all of the brilliant work that CHSS students have been doing within the past year. This will be on April 23rd from 12 to 4 p.m in the Horizon Hall atrium, and I hope to see you guys there. I will most likely be presenting my research so if you want to know what I’ve been up to, come and stop by!  
 
And finally, as the semester is wrapping up, I can't even believe it, but we are about to enter into our last month of school, and that's not just the last month of instruction, that is our last month, including finals, so mark this on your calendar. The CHSS end-of-semester de-stress event is going to be on April 30th from 11 a.m. to 2:30 p.m. That is going to be a picnic with some wellness activities, as finals will be coming up at that point, and everybody knows finals are quite stressful. And that will be in the Quad, which is that grassy area near SUB 1, and that's all I've got for you today, folks.  
 
CADIE: 
And we are back! Welcome to Act Two, and Lily, in this act, these questions are really going to speak more to your personal experience. I know we've already have gotten into some pretty deep topics in this episode, which I’m so grateful that we've been able to do, but these will also be more like reflection-based questions. The first one being, can you share a moment from your professional journey that confirmed that you are on the right career path? 
 
LILY: 
So I would say this actually dabbles into professional and personal, but candidly speaking I really can't think of anything other than over the summer, I had to actually, like myself, take some type of legal action against something. Which was something that I didn't think that I need to do as a 21-year-old, but life happens, and you know sometimes you got to do what you got to do.  
 
I ended up going into it, I thought I was going to go into it just like by myself and not really have anyone in my corner to like help me like figure out the system and how am I going to go about things, but I had the people from work, which I think is another reason why we're so close is because I had the attorneys at work, the paralegals, you know, that I knew really in my corner and behind me for something that was so crazy and like such a big deal in my life. And being in court and knowing that I do have all these people that, you know, they not only care about me in a professional way but looks like they care about me even in like my personal life, what happens to me, they care about me personally, as a person that they know.  
 
It meant a lot to me to know that I had these people in my corner besides just my family, but I wanted to be someone like them. Even though it wasn't their area of expertise in the law for most of them, it was the fact that they were so willing to jump in and help me, and if they themselves couldn't help me they were giving me recommendations of the best people that they knew to get the job done and to help me win everything that I needed to and get to where I wanted to legally.  
 
And really thanks to them I did and it was definitely such a great personal triumph, but it also showed me that I couldn't not do this thing that I had to, which is like that's a whole other can of worms to open, but I wouldn't dare, for editing purposes especially, I wouldn't dare to even get into that, but it was it really just was a time that reaffirmed to me that I have to take action for something that is affecting me so greatly, because how could I ever look someone else in the eyes as an attorney and not help them if they needed it, you know?  
 
Like knowing that if I were to be a coward and back out or not take care of myself the way that I did, it's like yeah, I’m going to give you advice to go do this, and you know, seize the day and do this and help yourself and put yourself first, but I didn't do that myself. That's bs, you know? Like to make someone else feel like you have to do something, but then you yourself chickened out last minute or something like that.  
 
So, being able to take legal action myself, knowing that I had other officials that I knew in my corner as well, that were in the legal field, even if it wasn't their area of expertise, all of it just meant a whole great deal to me.   
 
I mean, I've already been pretty solidified in my choice of law, but that experience just really, really honed in that, you know, this is exactly where I'm supposed to be. These people show me that this is exactly what I want to be or something similar to it, you know?  
 
CADIE: 
Yeah.  
 
LILY: 
And the law is very powerful, and the people that are in it are even more powerful. So, yeah. 
 
CADIE: 
For sure! That is such an amazing story.  
 
LILY: 
Yeah.  
 
EMMA: 
I was gonna say it certainly sounds affirming.  
 
LILY: 
Yeah, absolutely. It meant a lot to me.  
 
It really did, and it was definitely the hardest thing that I ever went through, but it was also such a rewarding experience to know that I was able to even do that. That's something that, at least the people in my life, they told me that not everyone can do that, and truly going through it, I feel like really not everyone could do that. I barely could, but those professionals that I was with, I mean, they inspire me on a daily basis.  
 
Like I said, because it's not even their area of the law, and they were willing to help me so much, and if they couldn't, they opened doors for me that I wouldn't have had otherwise. It's just like a normal person, you know, like it all it really did all mean a lot to me, and it just showed me that this is exactly where I want to be: something like this, someone like this, you know?  
 
CADIE: 
Yeah, and I keep on coming back to what you said earlier about how everybody at some point in their life is going to need a lawyer, and that time might be when, you know, you do have assets that you want to divvy up in a will, but that time also might be pretty soon.  
 
Like I've had my own legal battles as well, and like I'm just so grateful to be able to turn to my dad.  
 
EMMA & LILY: 
Yeah. 
 
CADIE: 
Like everybody needs a lawyer in their life.  
 
LILY: 
Absolutely, that's awesome. I know how you feel exactly.  
 
CADIE: 
Yeah, we can talk more about it off the record. I think you'll get a kick out of this story.  
 
LILY: 
I bet I will.  I'm excited.  
 
EMMA: 
The next question is, what specific skills have you gained in your professional endeavors that will be essential to your career goals?  
 
LILY: 
I think that I have spoken so much about organization on this pod, but even just like in our social media promo, please, please, please ,think about how you can be more organized, even if you're not like in this field yet, or if you want to be in something similar, organization is needed in every single aspect of your life, whether it's educationally or you know professionally.  
 
But I mean, I realize that you can't learn from mistakes, you can't understand where you went wrong on something, if you don't kind of keep like a detailed log about, okay, well, these are my goals that I wanted to do, this is where the goals went right, or where it went wrong. Be organized, even in like documenting failures. It sounds weird, but like I had to do that even my workplace because like I said, I wasn't really trained for the job, like I'm teaching myself day by day.  
 
And like my attorney obviously like gives me instructions on what to do for something, but I've now realized the importance of understanding, like what am I doing, like besides like filling out this tax form and filling out like this, I don't know, probate. I feel like I'm using I don't want to use like terms that I use in work, but like...  
 
CADIE: 
No, please do. 
 
LILY: 
No, but like, it's like I don't know, I just feel like it took me so long to even like get to this point of like, oh yeah, like I’m using this term properly, and I'm doing this. Like, I don't want to necessarily confuse anyone.  
 
But like, not to get into more technical things, but it's just like using not only just the assignments that you're getting at work or in you know educational life or whatever. Whatever assignment you have, understand what you're doing, why you're doing it, and then be organized about, you know, figuring out how in the future when you have to do the same sort of thing again. How did you do that the last time? Why did you do things that you did, and how that can help you for whatever future? I don't know, endeavors, assignments, deadlines, you name it that you have.  
 
And I think that's really helped me in this field of like knowing that, OK, this form needs to be done for this. But why am I actually doing this? Like, what is it accomplishing?  
 
And right now, if anything, I feel like I'm just like reflecting on myself. Like maybe I'm spewing a whole bunch of nothing to you guys. But like... 
 
CADIE: 
No!  
LILY: 
If my boss is listening, he's like, yeah, girl, you got it. You know, you know. 
  
EMMA: 
That's what this part of the episode is for.  
 
LILY: 
Yeah.  
 
EMMA: 
It's for you, yes, of course, to reflect on you're doing. But it's more than OK if it's being a reflective moment of you and who you are and how you've grown.  
 
LILY: 
Yeah, yeah. And honestly, you guys, when you're editing this and you're looking at you're like, girl, that was a whole bunch of nothing. 
  
Take that out.  
 
CADIE: 
No, no, it wasn't a whole bunch of nothing.  
 
LILY: 
Right now, I'm like, yeah, I really did that. 
  
Like when I'm thinking about like the certain deadlines that I've had in my head, like the past month, it's been super busy at work. So like that's why this is in my head.  
 
EMMA: 
Yeah, no, of course we keep it in.  
 
CADIE: 
Our next question for you is, how have your professors, mentors or supervisors shaped your professional goals and mindset?  
 
LILY: 
Oh, that's a good question.  
 
I would say that, first of all, I think it firstly boils down to who's your professor and why is why is that person the one that you chose? I personally choose all of my professors based on Rate My Professor reviews. 
  
So please, if you're not using that, go use that. Go do it, because you never know what you're getting into until you're actually in the class. But that definitely is a forum that like is really helpful to know what you're going to get into, at least have an idea of it. So if you're not using Rate My Professor, please go use Rate My Professor.  
 
But other than that, when I am actually in a class, I think that my professors do a good job of, you know, kind of just being candid about whatever area of the law or principle that they're teaching, that they've kind of opened up doors for me to think about it in a broader context of other classes that I'm learning either something similar or completely different that I can kind of relate the two topics together.  
 
But then when it comes to my professional career and integrating that with my school life, professor-wise, I would say that, so as you know, I am applying to law school and you do need letters of recommendation. And two of mine are going to be from people in my workplace. But one of them is actually from a professor that I had a couple of times and did really well in her class and really enjoyed, you know, all of the topics that we went over. And they were just genuinely so interesting. 
  
But she's writing a letter of recommendation for me. That could be, who knows, maybe something that sets me apart from another applicant. Like I said, I won't really know until I actually like get in or not to wherever.  
 
But I definitely think that I'm super grateful for the opportunity to be with such amazing professors that, you know, one of them is even kind enough to go out of their way and write something that, for all I know, could change the trajectory of my law school applications and then my career as a byproduct. So, yeah, I think that being conscious that you're not just in a class to take the class. 
  
That person could be someone that you can go back and connect with, network with in different ways, whether it be for a future job or asking for a recommendation of some kind. These people, they're already in this field to help you in some way. And that could be beyond the classroom as well, which is something I think that maybe we can forget about sometimes that they're not just here just to teach us a topic or something. 
  
 
CADIE & EMMA: 
Yeah.  
 
LILY: 
They're here for more than that.  
 
EMMA: 
Yeah. Over the course of our time together, I think it's very evident that you have put forth a lot of preparation, a lot of thought, a lot of intentionality into preparing for your future and your career. And I'm sure you've possibly thought about this already. But in your opinion, what are the biggest challenges facing professionals in your desired field?  
 
LILY: 
It's a good question, too. Well, I haven't even thought of that, really. 
  
I would say that everyone is talking about it, but AI is everywhere these days. And because of that, I think that this has probably helped some professionals in some way, but also has hurt others. And I mean, even my boss the other day was just talking about a couple of attorneys that he knows who've lost their license because of the use of AI. 
  
Yeah, it's a big deal. And I think that it's probably more prevalent than we think so far. But I know that, for example, like I heard that Chat GPT, for example, is it's like banning use of like legal advice and medical advice in 2026 because so many people are getting advice from forums like Chat GPT that, you know, it's clearly people are attorneys for reasons, they're doctors for reasons, you know, like they've gone to school for this. 
  
And I think the AI can be helpful in some ways, but it's definitely not a replacement for such a impactful career, you know, in general. So I would say that maybe people are just getting a lot of not even just attorneys, but potential clients are just going to AI and asking, hey, make me a will or hey, you know, what should I do about this legal question I have or who should I go to?  
 
Which I mean, it could be OK to give you an idea of something for action steps of what to do legally. But I would say that maybe some people are, you know, just relying on it overall as their legal advice these days. And that's just not OK.  
 
At least I've seen that in some of my classes, like we've talked about, you know, how the rise of AI has led to these sort of ideas. And that's that's a little scary to be getting your advice Chat GPT about like legal things and even medically. 
  
That's pretty scary.  
 
CADIE: 
Yeah.  
 
EMMA: 
How has George Mason prepared you to overcome the obstacles that AI is presenting?  
 
 
LILY: 
I'd say that either way, I mean, this isn't just like in my major, but you know how like we're just supposed to be as honest as possible. And, you know, the work that we turn in and how we're using the Internet or any of our sources. So already, I try to really stay away from using AI as much as possible, even though I know that there are some things that I'm like, wow, that could be so easily done with AI. 
  
But I think that at that point, you just stop using your brain. You just stop completely. And I've always been someone that like, you know, I want to show exactly what I'm capable of and then feel even more proud about it in the end. 
  
So, you know, I'd be lying if I said that I've never used AI or something, not necessarily like for school, but like in general, like asking questions, but like knowing that it's not your solution to things, you know, not just educationally, but also just in an everyday life. Like it's not like the solution for you. It could be a helpful tool to maybe get ideas of something that you need to get done. 
  
But definitely, I think that George Mason is kind of because of their like zero tolerance policy of like, you know, don't use AI and like don't, at least in my field, I know that like even I know like some people in computer science and IT were like their teachers like, oh, maybe ask AI like how you can create a study set problem or something like that. But like, I really I've never been pushed to use AI in my life at George Mason, at least in my majors. So, yeah, because I'm not really heavily dependent on it right now. 
  
I feel like hopefully that'll set me up to be good for the long run of like I'm not going to really like need it like that.  
 
CADIE: 
Yeah, for sure. 
  
It's interesting because a lot of my teachers have told me, you know, use it. You can use it for like grammatical stuff, but don't use it for content.  
 
LILY: 
Really? 
 
CADIE: 
Yes, except for there was one exception to this. 
  
And to be fair, this wasn't a teacher for an assignment, but we had somebody coming in. I'm a COMMS major, PR concentration, and talking to us about networking, right? 
  
You mentioned it earlier. Very important for legal studies. Very important for public relations. 
  
LILY: 
Absolutely. Yeah.  
 
CADIE: 
And she had mentioned like, oh, yeah, go to this person had mentioned, yeah, go to Chat GPT and put in questions that you want to ask people or ask it to generate questions that you want to ask people. 
  
LILY: 
Right.  
 
CADIE: 
And something about that deeply terrifies me. Taking the human element, out of talking to one another.  
 
LILY: 
Yeah.  
 
CADIE: 
That scares me. 
  
LILY: 
Oh, my God. I didn't even think about it like that. Absolutely. 
  
That's wow. This is so dystopian.  
 
CADIE: 
You're telling me, like what? What is- you're talking to a room filled with COMMS people, right? Like, I love yapping so much that it's what I'm studying and dedicating the rest of my life. 
  
LILY: 
You're on a pod, babe.  
 
CADIE: 
I'm on a pod. And so I was like, OK, but I will say like, that is the one time that I've had a more like pro AI experience here. 
  
LILY: 
Right.  
 
CADIE: 
It was very interesting.  
 
Moving on. 
  
How do you see your experiences here at Mason giving you a competitive edge in the job market or in graduate school applications?  
 
LILY: 
That's a good question.  
 
I'm so, so, so happy that I chose the route that I did for creating a degree path that is more impressive than what it would have been if I had just done my solo degree without any other like bells and whistles.  
 
So originally, I was an integrative studies major concentrating in legal studies. And that was fine. And I was actually going to graduate a year early because my credits from the IB diploma had also given me like, like, you know, over a semester of credits counting towards my time at Mason that I was like, I can graduate early if I want. And then go to law school early, blah, blah, blah. 
  
But in my head, I was like, well, why don't I just use that last year and then add on a whole bunch of bells and whistles to everything else that I'm already doing? Especially because at that point, I kind of had like an excess in classes that I was taking. And so many of them focused on law and criminology in general, which is why I even picked up my Criminology, Law, and Society degree as well. And in that time, I would say that I really thought that I was going to stop there and not even do the minors. 
  
But because you have to do 150 credits as a dual degree student, I was like, dang, I got a long way to go, where like I can fill it up with even more things. For a second, I looked if there's like a triple degree thing.  
 
You can't. You can't. Spoiler alert.  
 
EMMA: 
No, you're good. 
  
I've done the same thing.  
 
LILY: 
You have?  
 
EMMA: 
And this should not be a surprise to people that know me. I have looked at that route. 
  
CADIE: 
No, of course.  
 
EMMA: 
No shame. I support you in that decision. That decision to look.  
 
LILY: 
Even our Mason degree audit genuinely thinks I'm doing three majors. And for the longest time, I even had to go to my advisors. 
  
I'm like, hey, I don't see my two minors on here. I just see a sociology degree as well. Like take that out of here, man. 
  
Like if I can't do another degree, I don't want to see that. You're just teasing me. But I decided to then use my time even more efficiently and then do a minor in social justice and human rights.  
 
Then, randomly, and this is like a couple of weeks worth of like a development recently that I was like, hey, I'm looking at these classes and I'm telling you, I've done so many things with some of these like same area of teaching that I'm like, I could I could do another minor. Is that possible? I asked my advisor. 
  
Oh, my God, that's another thing. Please talk to your advisors. Like, sorry, just like a random plug right here. 
  
Go talk to your advisors, because like they obviously know this route so much better than you. And I talked to him, and I was like, hey, Marty, his name is Marty, and he's the best. Shout out, Marty. 
  
But he had said that, yeah, you can do another minor. What were you thinking? I was like, well, it looks like a lot of my classes also go into childhood studies, which is why the second minor came about.  
 
So I think that what sets me apart in my time at Mason to hopefully, hopefully will set me apart to law school applications and then my time beyond is that I've done so much with the four years that I've been here. 
  
Genuinely, like being part of like a really big club at the school, and then academically to take on so much rigor in my courses, even retaking the courses that I didn't do so hot in my first year. I went through a lot of stuff in my first year that kind of just made it really difficult for me to even like focus properly.  
 
It wasn't even like, oh, the classes were too hard. It was just like, girl, I wasn't in the headspace to like even be in school at that point. But I really tried to even make up for anything that wasn't really up to my standard for grades or anything. And I just retook those courses on top of what I'm already doing. 
  
And that's just something that's led me to where I am now is that I've taken all these classes and they've counted for so many different things that hopefully any, you know, law school admissions or even any jobs, they'll see like, dang, girl, you you did something with your undergrad, you know, like that's that's definitely a busy schedule.  
 
So, yes, it did take summer courses. Yes, it did take summer semesters. Yes, it did take, you know, over time with classes, 18 credits, some semester, 17 others like, yeah, I really did push myself. But I mean, it was offered. So I did it. 
  
So I think that the biggest thing is like trying to push yourself to set yourself apart in this competitive field that is just always, always more and more competitive as the days go on.  
 
CADIE: 
For sure.  
 
EMMA: 
Looking post-graduation, what does, using air quotes, success on your horizon look like? And what steps are you taking to get there?  
 
LILY: 
So clearly you can see, oh, I'm pre-law. 
  
Definitely law school admissions is really, really, really important to me. I have I feel like especially within the past couple of years, I've really done as much as I can to show law schools that, look, I'm here. I'm ready to put in the work, whether it be look in my professional life or look at what I've done with the rigor in my academics. 
  
Everything that is about me has really shown something that has to do with what do I want for my future career in law?  
 
And so I think that my success, hopefully, while I don't think that it would define me, I think that it would be a very big part of my identity would be to hopefully get into a law school, one that I'm excited to attend and that I feel like I deserve.  
 
And then really giving my best at law school to try and be at the top of my class, trying to be making great connections with people, enjoying my time in law school as well. Success isn't always just about like where you get at the end of the day, but even just enjoying that path. 
  
I want to make great friends. I want to make lasting relationships that I feel like I could like always lean back on and like have a support systems in my future legal career, which I'm super excited about. And then at some point, I definitely want to maybe open up my own firm, maybe go and work for some type of corporate baddie position. 
  
You know, who knows? And at some point, like I just I'd love to be in a position that I feel not only financially secure, but above all else, like just being proud of where I've come after everything that I faced. And I feel like even sometimes I'm just shocked that I'm 21 years old because I don't feel like it. I feel like I've done so much that I'm like, girl, this is like 25 minimum. 
  
I don't know how. I don't know how like this is like a 21 year old doing that right now. But and that's just that's not even coming from a place of like I'm trying to be arrogant or show off. 
  
It really is like especially when I'm putting everything down on paper for these law school applications, I've become really proud of myself. Really.  
 
Like genuinely, I think that like I love reflecting on everything that I've done and then seeing it pay off and seeing my parents, how proud they are, my friends noticing, my brother, like all these people.  
 
Like it really does, it makes a difference when, you know, your village that's always supporting and is behind you is noticing how much work you've put in. And I just I want to do it for myself, but also to make them really proud. So when they're proud, I think that's when I can really define myself as succeeding in this life. 
  
EMMA: 
Well, this might sound super weird, but hopefully consider Cadie and I now a part of your village.  
 
LILY: 
Aw! 
 
EMMA: 
Because, yes, I met you today, but I'm super proud of you. And I think you're just a really incredible person. 
  
And you're going to go very far.  
 
LILY: 
Oh, you guys are the best. Really, I've had so much fun doing this. 
  
Seriously. Thank you.  
 
EMMA: 
Of course. But seriously, be proud of yourself.  
 
LILY: 
Yeah, thank you. Thank you. 
  
CADIE: 
Yes, you've done so much. And I think that's just such a wonderful sentiment to end today's episode on. We've got one last question for you. 
  
Well, technically, we've got two.  
 
LILY: 
Sure.  
 
CADIE: 
But this is our last interview-ee question. This is a question we like to ask all of our guests. And that question is, do you have any advice for our listeners?  
 
LILY: 
Yeah, absolutely. 
  
I would say...  
 
I was saying this earlier. Please talk to your advisors, because I think that my first year of college, I came in and I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm an IB grad. Like, yeah, I'm super successful.  
 
Like I if anything, I had way more confidence in my first year than I probably do now. I was like, girl, I'm unstoppable. 
  
I can do anything. And then like life just hit me and was like, girl, you need to humble yourself. You need to really like rely on other people that this is their job to help you. 
  
So I didn't really like take advantage of like academic advising opportunities. And it bit me in the butt. Really. Like I said, that first year, it was already really difficult for personal reasons. 
But then like it was exacerbated by not taking the right classes.  
 
I was taking like level 300 or 400 level classes as a freshman. And like, I didn't know you're supposed to not do that. 
  
Like because I wasn't paying attention. I wasn't like, oh, yeah, like I'm going to go to this advisor and they're going to teach me that, like, you know, you should wait on this course. Maybe you could do this in another semester. 
  
You don't have to do all these hard things right now, because in my head, I came from high school. It's like I've been taking college-level courses. This is nothing.  
 
 
CADIE: 
Right. 
  
LILY: 
Girl, it's still something!  
 
Like I think that if I was in a better headspace, maybe I could have done, you know, exceedingly well in these classes that I even did end up retaking. Honestly speaking, I did retake them because I was like, OK, that's not like a Lily grade or like something that I'm used to. So I was like, girl, I'm not going to settle for that just in the first year of college.  
 
There's so much time to help yourself. Retake courses, that's another thing. If you think that you can do better and if you are going to a graduate school that, you know, GPA matters, don't just think that like, oh, like they're not going to care about that one grade or something. I'll just write an addendum.  
 
Maybe show that you've done something to kind of like mediate, like remediate, do something that it's like, yeah, I realize that I could have done better. So I tried to, and I retook this course.  
 
If you're applying to colleges and you think that there's something that is missing in your application or maybe there's like a leap in how great you performed one semester, if there's literally anything that you think that an admissions team should know about your application, you need to write an addendum.  
 
Always take the opportunity if they say optional essay, but it really is like to your benefit to write these things and to really put that down on paper, that, hey, this doesn't reflect, this little gap in my, you know, resume or application. It doesn't reflect who I am as a candidate or as a student. Rather, this is who I am. And it's because of this that this happened. 
  
So definitely writing addendums if you're applying postgrad. Like I said before, Rate My Professor is a beautiful forum to understand what are you getting into for any class that you're taking? 
 
 I even recommended my cousins who ended up coming to Mason after me that, listen, go search up these professors before you go for anything. I personally don't really choose a professor that has anything less than an 80 percent rating or four out of five stars because these people are telling you like, hey, I would take this class again. 
  
I wouldn't take this class again. Why don't you listen to them? Because, you know, they've definitely they've done their time in the class. So was it good? Was it bad? All these things, I think, really helped my success in Mason. 
  
And I'm really happy that at some point I learned all of it, even if sometimes maybe it was a little too late, but it's never too late, guys. I'm telling you, it really isn't too late. Trust me, I even know myself. 
  
Like I said, like my first semester, I think I ended up like, I don't even know, like, sorry, Mom and Dad, like a like a three point three or like something like really low for like what I was like used to, like graduating high school, like a four point four, three weighted average, you know, of IB.  
 
And then coming here and I was like, wow, that's like a whole, you know, different level of bad compared to what I'm used to. And then now I'm super proud and super happy. 
  
I'll probably be ending with like a three nine or something. But like that's after hard work of retaking classes, of doing all these things and, you know, really giving it my all. So there's always time to turn it around. 
  
Really, there is time.  
 
So even if you think that, you know, you're not super happy with the GPA, you're not happy with how your classes have gone, either try to retake something or take courses that are worth more in credits to kind of outweigh the things that maybe you've kind of faltered on the past with other classes. Really try your best and talk to your advisor to see how you can help yourself with getting your grades up or with finding a path that is best fit for you. 
  
So definitely reach out to other people because they're here to help you for a reason. So, yeah, that's my, I think that would say that's my best advice.  
 
EMMA: 
Well, all of that is really great advice and a wonderful way to finish up this episode. 
  
I can't believe how fast it went.  
 
CADIE: 
This has been such a great episode. Thank you so much, Lily, for coming on. 
  
EMMA: 
Yes. So just yes. Thank you for being here. 
  
Lily, is there anything you would like to shout out or promote? What are your plans post-graduation? Where can listeners find you on social media or in CHSS?  
 
LILY: 
Oh, my gosh, guys. Wow, I feel like such a celebrity right now. Well, I think that the biggest thing I could promote is, like I said, Rate My Professor, my advisor, Marty Abruzzo. He's super awesome. He is he's just really great. So he's definitely been someone that I've turned to. 
  
Like I said, go to your advisors, talk to them. They're professionals. They know what they're doing. 
  
They know these classes like the back of their hand. And if they don't, then they know someone else who does.  
 
And other than that, my name is Lily Amin. 
  
And that's where you can find me on, I don't know.  
 
EMMA: 
LinkedIn? 
  
LILY: 
Yeah, LinkedIn. Sure. Come and find me. 
  
Come on. Oh, if you have any questions, reach out or anything. I truly I'd love to help anyone that needs it. 
  
Yeah.  
 
EMMA: 
Well, awesome. Thank you so much again, Lily. Thank you so much for being here.  
 
Listeners, thank you so much for listening to this episode of CHSS Connection.  
 
CADIE: 
Hey, thank you for listening to this episode of CHSS Connection. 
  
This podcast is hosted and written by Emma Howard and Cadie Junker. Our audio engineer is Dennis Gabtiov. Our supervisor is Eleana Velasco. This podcast is produced by George Mason University's College of Humanities and Social Sciences, Undergraduate Academic Affairs. Special thanks to the Mason Innovation Exchange for their recording studio. The podcast could not happen without them. 
  
This project was developed in collaboration with Career Services  and the On-Campus Internship Program. If you love the show and want to interact with more of our content, follow us on Instagram @chsspod or check out the CHSS website where there is an ongoing library of our episodes. You can also be a potential guest on our podcast. 
  
EMMA: 
If you enjoyed the show and would like to express your support, there are a few things you can do. You can leave a review wherever you are listening to this podcast. You can help by word of mouth, either by telling someone directly who might be interested in the show or posting about it on social media, tagging  @chsspod. All these things help support the show, and we appreciate anyone who has done it or will do so in the future. Again, thank you for tuning into this episode. 
  
We hope you will tune in to the next episode where you're joined by Emma Bosies to discuss switching your major as an upperclassman. But until then, stay curious.  
 
CADIE: 
Stay creative!  
 
BOTH: 
And stay connected.